[arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the HF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio's contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: "We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, "HF in a nutshell," which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents' technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband - a current development - and its pros and cons. " Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the HF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:image001.png@01D81213.2F2DA9F0] Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the HF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:image001.png@01D81213.2F2DA9F0] Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
(mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry.
On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics)>
Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far.
Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics.
The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium.
There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communication>
On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> wrote:
Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can.
The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio.
Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use.
Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks.
Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks <https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks>
-- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org <mailto:n4mb@arrl.org>
From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org <mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go.
Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles:
https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ <https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/>
Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF.
73 Ria N2RJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats:
“We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications.
HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv <https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv>
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
-Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
(mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Hum.... reminded me of my membership in Pi Mu Epsilon back on the day. (hi) Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2022 6:58 pm Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Did he say there would be Pi? I like Pi... :) Mark, HDX On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 5:29 PM Roderick, Rick, K5UR via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
(mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations)
Hum.... reminded me of my membership in Pi Mu Epsilon back on the day. (hi)
Rick - K5UR
-----Original Message----- From: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2022 6:58 pm Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
(mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations)
Sorry.
On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics)
Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far.
Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics.
The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium.
There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica...
On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) < mbaker@arrl.org> wrote:
Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can.
The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio.
Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use.
Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks.
Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks
-- *Mickey Baker, N4MB* *Director, Southeastern Division* *ARRL,* *The National Association for Amateur Radio®* Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org
*From: *arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> *Date: *Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM *To: *Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject: *[arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go.
Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles:
https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/
Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF.
73 Ria N2RJ ------------------------------ *From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM *To:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the*HF Wideband* reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats:
*“We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications.*
*HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “*
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF* *Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division* *610-359-7300* <image001.png> *Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections* www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu <mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu> > wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem> ). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org <mailto:mbaker@arrl.org> > wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: <mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> n4mb@arrl.org From: arrl-odv < <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) < <mailto:n2rj@arrl.org> n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) < <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv < <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ _____ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections <http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this: https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq... Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens: https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created... With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away … Dave From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM To: "Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com>, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this: https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq... Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens: https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created... With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
I'm certain that there is intelligent control built into these aircraft that might include completion of mission, but definitely includes "Return to Base" with multiple options based on the situation. This would include inertial navigation - no GPS, and in-air refueling if necessary, at a calculated covert aerial fuel point. These are generally hardened, sophisticated aircraft that will operate autonomously if necessary. No worries about running out of fuel and crashing in an urban area, as long as the aircraft is intact. This is why they're so expensive. Mickey ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 11:02 AM To: arrl-odv Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) Subject: [arrl-odv:33349] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away … Dave From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM To: "Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com>, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this: https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq... Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens: https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created... With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
I'm still waiting on my pi...... :) On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 8:37 AM Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) < mbaker@arrl.org> wrote:
I'm certain that there is intelligent control built into these aircraft that might include completion of mission, but definitely includes "Return to Base" with multiple options based on the situation. This would include inertial navigation - no GPS, and in-air refueling if necessary, at a calculated covert aerial fuel point.
These are generally hardened, sophisticated aircraft that will operate autonomously if necessary. No worries about running out of fuel and crashing in an urban area, as long as the aircraft is intact.
This is why they're so expensive.
Mickey ------------------------------ *From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 11:02 AM *To:* arrl-odv *Cc:* Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33349] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away …
Dave
*From: *arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org> *Date: *Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM *To: *"Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com>, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu> *Cc: *arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject: *[arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this:
https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq...
Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens:
https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created...
With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility.
But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail.
Ria
N2RJ ------------------------------
*From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM *To:* McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu> *Cc:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
NOW it makes sense!
’73 de JIM N2ZZ
*From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> *On Behalf Of *Kristen McIntyre *Sent:* Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM *To:* Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> *Cc:* arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) < n2rj@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
(mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations)
Sorry.
On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics)
Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far.
Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics.
The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium.
There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica...
On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) < mbaker@arrl.org> wrote:
Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can.
The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio.
Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use.
Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks.
Article that has a rudimentary explanation:
https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks
--
*Mickey Baker, N4MB*
*Director, Southeastern Division*
*ARRL,* *The National Association for Amateur Radio®*
Phone (561) 320-2775
Email: n4mb@arrl.org
*From: *arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> *Date: *Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM *To: *Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject: *[arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go.
Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles:
https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/
Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF.
73
Ria
N2RJ ------------------------------
*From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM *To:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the*HF Wideband* reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats:
*“We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications.*
*HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “*
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
<image001.png>
*Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
http://www.whisktogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/pi-pie_1.jpg Sent from my iPad
On Jan 28, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm still waiting on my pi......
:)
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 8:37 AM Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> wrote: I'm certain that there is intelligent control built into these aircraft that might include completion of mission, but definitely includes "Return to Base" with multiple options based on the situation. This would include inertial navigation - no GPS, and in-air refueling if necessary, at a calculated covert aerial fuel point.
These are generally hardened, sophisticated aircraft that will operate autonomously if necessary. No worries about running out of fuel and crashing in an urban area, as long as the aircraft is intact.
This is why they're so expensive.
Mickey From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 11:02 AM To: arrl-odv Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) Subject: [arrl-odv:33349] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away …
Dave
From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM To: "Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com>, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this:
https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq...
Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens:
https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created...
With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility.
But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail.
Ria N2RJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
NOW it makes sense!
’73 de JIM N2ZZ
From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
(mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations)
Sorry.
On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics)
Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far.
Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics.
The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium.
There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica...
On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> wrote:
Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can.
The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio.
Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use.
Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks.
Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks
-- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org
From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go.
Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles:
https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/
Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF.
73 Ria N2RJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats:
“We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications.
HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
-Kristen (K6WX)
"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson
(--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Where were YOU on March 14, 2016? March 14 has been a big deal at some places I’ve worked. -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org From: Kristen A. McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM To: Tharp, Mark, KB7HDX (VD, NW) <kb7hdx@gmail.com> Cc: Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>, Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:33352] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 http://www.whisktogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/pi-pie_1.jpg Sent from my iPad On Jan 28, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com> wrote: I'm still waiting on my pi...... :) On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 8:37 AM Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: I'm certain that there is intelligent control built into these aircraft that might include completion of mission, but definitely includes "Return to Base" with multiple options based on the situation. This would include inertial navigation - no GPS, and in-air refueling if necessary, at a calculated covert aerial fuel point. These are generally hardened, sophisticated aircraft that will operate autonomously if necessary. No worries about running out of fuel and crashing in an urban area, as long as the aircraft is intact. This is why they're so expensive. Mickey ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com<http://davidsiddall-law.com> <david@davidsiddall-law.com<mailto:david@davidsiddall-law.com>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 11:02 AM To: arrl-odv Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) Subject: [arrl-odv:33349] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away … Dave From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM To: "Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com<mailto:jboehner01@yahoo.com>>, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this: https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq... Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens: https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created... With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
MIT admissions are announced on March 14 these days. On Jan 28, 2022, at 12:58 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: Where were YOU on March 14, 2016? March 14 has been a big deal at some places I’ve worked. -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: Kristen A. McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM To: Tharp, Mark, KB7HDX (VD, NW) <kb7hdx@gmail.com<mailto:kb7hdx@gmail.com>> Cc: Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>>, Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:33352] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 http://www.whisktogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/pi-pie_1.jpg Sent from my iPad On Jan 28, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com<mailto:kb7hdx@gmail.com>> wrote: I'm still waiting on my pi...... :) On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 8:37 AM Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: I'm certain that there is intelligent control built into these aircraft that might include completion of mission, but definitely includes "Return to Base" with multiple options based on the situation. This would include inertial navigation - no GPS, and in-air refueling if necessary, at a calculated covert aerial fuel point. These are generally hardened, sophisticated aircraft that will operate autonomously if necessary. No worries about running out of fuel and crashing in an urban area, as long as the aircraft is intact. This is why they're so expensive. Mickey ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com<http://davidsiddall-law.com/><david@davidsiddall-law.com<mailto:david@davidsiddall-law.com>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 11:02 AM To: arrl-odv Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) Subject: [arrl-odv:33349] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away … Dave From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM To: "Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com<mailto:jboehner01@yahoo.com>>, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this: https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq... Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens: https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created... With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu<mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu>> wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem>). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org<mailto:n2rj@arrl.org>> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
What goes up will come down… Tom From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of david davidsiddall-law.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 11:02 AM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33349] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 I have visions of a major solar flare with a controlled UAS a few thousand miles away becoming an uncontrolled UAS a few thousand miles away … Dave From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > on behalf of "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <n2rj@arrl.org <mailto:n2rj@arrl.org> > Date: Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:08 AM To: "Boehner, James, N2ZZ (Dir,RK)" <jboehner01@yahoo.com <mailto:jboehner01@yahoo.com> >, "McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD)" <kristen@alum.mit.edu <mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu> > Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:33346] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this: https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq... Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens: https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created... With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. Ria N2RJ _____ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu <mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu> > Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 NOW it makes sense! ’73 de JIM N2ZZ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu <mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu> > Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> ; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org <mailto:n2rj@arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) Sorry. On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu <mailto:kristen@alum.mit.edu> > wrote: Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics. Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(physics) Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world. It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far. Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem> ). They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though. Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed. Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state. There is no faking that. And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances. This has been known for decades. Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way. At least, that’s our current understanding of physics. The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c. Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium. There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive. These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years. The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communica... On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org <mailto:mbaker@arrl.org> > wrote: Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can. The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use. Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.” No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks. Article that has a rudimentary explanation: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quantum-networks -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: <mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> n4mb@arrl.org From: arrl-odv < <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) < <mailto:n2rj@arrl.org> n2rj@arrl.org> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) < <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv < <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles: https://swling.com/blog/tag/wipe/ Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF. 73 Ria N2RJ _____ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 <image001.png> Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections <http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-) -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
There are many bands on HF besides the ham bands. R&S has been pitching this for years, and they are a leading supplier of HF equipment to militaries around the world and also to the aviation interests that use HF. With the decline of HF broadcasting, I haven’t seen any HF spectrum scarcity nor any move towards the ham bands. But of course it’s always possible. Even the fast-traders using experimental licenses seem to be looking outside the ham bands insofar as I can determine. And there are several HF broadcast applications pending at the FCC that seem a little suspect by their description of proposed service, so much so that the FCC staff is looking into them. But all this again is outside the HF ham bands. “Wideband” reference probably is to wideband 4G ALE, a data mode that employs up to 48 kHz. The overall R&S description at this link may be useful, I’d guess that their presentation parallels some parts of this. https://www.ab4oj.com/dl/rs/rebirth_hf.pdf Of course, if anyone detects a suggestion or move toward our bands, do let me know! I keep watch and just haven’t seen anything and given propagation characteristics and international allocations the way they are, I think that this would be an uphill battle for anyone to wage in the immediate-to-intermediate future and unlikely given the existence of much easier HF pickings outside our bands. But sometimes things do happen. 73, Dave K3ZJ David R. Siddall Managing Partner DS Law, PLLC 1629 K St. NW, Ste 300 Washington, DC 20006 direct: +1 202 559 4690 Unauthorized Disclosure Prohibited. This e-mail is intended solely for the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, it is prohibited to disclose, copy, distribute, or use the contents of this email and its attachments. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all electronic and physical copies of the e-mail message and its attachments. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of attorney-client or any other privilege. Thank you. From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Reply-To: "Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 5:44 PM To: 'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the HF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:image001.png@01D81213.2F2DA9F0] Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
Hi Dave You are absolutely correct that this isn't about the ham bands. In fact, some of this is defense related as well. FlexRadio and General Atomics are now using HF to control predator drones. It is a resiliency measure in case satellites are jammed or even destroyed. The HF stock traders I know for a fact want to masquerade as international broadcasters and use DRM. The WIPE proposal is in several of the broadcast bands and they are trying to claim that they are a broadcaster. 73 Ria, N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:21 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33337] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 There are many bands on HF besides the ham bands. R&S has been pitching this for years, and they are a leading supplier of HF equipment to militaries around the world and also to the aviation interests that use HF. With the decline of HF broadcasting, I haven’t seen any HF spectrum scarcity nor any move towards the ham bands. But of course it’s always possible. Even the fast-traders using experimental licenses seem to be looking outside the ham bands insofar as I can determine. And there are several HF broadcast applications pending at the FCC that seem a little suspect by their description of proposed service, so much so that the FCC staff is looking into them. But all this again is outside the HF ham bands. “Wideband” reference probably is to wideband 4G ALE, a data mode that employs up to 48 kHz. The overall R&S description at this link may be useful, I’d guess that their presentation parallels some parts of this. https://www.ab4oj.com/dl/rs/rebirth_hf.pdf Of course, if anyone detects a suggestion or move toward our bands, do let me know! I keep watch and just haven’t seen anything and given propagation characteristics and international allocations the way they are, I think that this would be an uphill battle for anyone to wage in the immediate-to-intermediate future and unlikely given the existence of much easier HF pickings outside our bands. But sometimes things do happen. 73, Dave K3ZJ David R. Siddall Managing Partner DS Law, PLLC 1629 K St. NW, Ste 300 Washington, DC 20006 direct: +1 202 559 4690 Unauthorized Disclosure Prohibited. This e-mail is intended solely for the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, it is prohibited to disclose, copy, distribute, or use the contents of this email and its attachments. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all electronic and physical copies of the e-mail message and its attachments. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of attorney-client or any other privilege. Thank you. From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Reply-To: "Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 5:44 PM To: 'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022 A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the HF Wideband reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats: “We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications. HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “ Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:image001.png@01D81213.2F2DA9F0] Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
Actually, the high speed traders are proposing HF broadcast. They will be providing actual content but do not need to sell advertising. They do have other uses for the signal that piggyback on the main programming. One can image the value they perceive. But that is in the broadcast bands. I have seen the planning, but they are not any kind of threat to amateur radio. The other proposed service isn't either I suspect, but I think we will see such service find its way into Public Safety Radio use for disasters. I do not know if SHARES uses such wider modes now. I attended a session in DC, I think it was, at an APCO annual conference where a maritime HF telephone interconnect service was peddling HF radio backup to county 911 systems for emergency use. I have not seen it get popular. It was only voice interconnect service. The name of the service provider escapes me. *Bob Famiglio, K3RF* On 1/25/2022 11:25 PM, Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) wrote:
Hi Dave
You are absolutely correct that this isn't about the ham bands. In fact, some of this is defense related as well. FlexRadio and General Atomics are now using HF to control p.redator drones. It is a resiliency measure in case satellites are jammed or even destroyed.
The HF stock traders I know for a fact want to masquerade as international broadcasters and use DRM. The WIPE proposal is in several of the broadcast bands and they are trying to claim that they are a broadcaster.
73 Ria, N2RJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:21 PM *To:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33337] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
There are many bands on HF besides the ham bands. R&S has been pitching this for years, and they are a leading supplier of HF equipment to militaries around the world and also to the aviation interests that use HF. With the decline of HF broadcasting, I haven’t seen any HF spectrum scarcity nor any move towards the ham bands. But of course it’s always possible. Even the fast-traders using experimental licenses seem to be looking outside the ham bands insofar as I can determine. And there are several HF broadcast applications pending at the FCC that seem a little suspect by their description of proposed service, so much so that the FCC staff is looking into them. But all this again is outside the HF ham bands.
“Wideband” reference probably is to wideband 4G ALE, a data mode that employs up to 48 kHz. The overall R&S description at this link may be useful, I’d guess that their presentation parallels some parts of this.
https://www.ab4oj.com/dl/rs/rebirth_hf.pdf
Of course, if anyone detects a suggestion or move toward our bands, do let me know! I keep watch and just haven’t seen anything and given propagation characteristics and international allocations the way they are, I think that this would be an uphill battle for anyone to wage in the immediate-to-intermediate future and unlikely given the existence of much easier HF pickings outside our bands. But sometimes things do happen.
73, Dave K3ZJ
*David R. Siddall*
*Managing Partner*
*DS Law, PLLC*
*1629 K St. NW, Ste 300*
*Washington, DC 20006*
*direct: +1 202 559 4690*
Default Line
*Unauthorized Disclosure Prohibited.*This e-mail is intended solely for the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, it is prohibited to disclose, copy, distribute, or use the contents of this email and its attachments. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all electronic and physical copies of the e-mail message and its attachments. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of attorney-client or any other privilege. Thank you.
*From: *arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Reply-To: *"Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> *Date: *Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 5:44 PM *To: *'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject: *[arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is the _HF Wideband_ reference. Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar. Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats:
/“We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications./
/HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). *_The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons. “_*/
*__*
*__*
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
/Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections/
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*__*
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (11)
-
Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) -
Bob Famiglio K3RF -
Bob Famiglio, K3RF
-
david davidsiddall-law.com -
Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) -
James F. Boehner, MD -
k5ur＠aol.com -
Kristen A. McIntyre -
Kristen McIntyre
-
Mark J Tharp -
w3tom＠verizon.net