By the way this thinking is what I believe is driving this:

https://www.ga.com/ga-asi-demonstrates-blos-command-control-over-hf-using-mq-9

Or at least the reasoning behind this project. General atomics contracted with flex to provide a ruggedized FLEX-6600 to provide a control link for their drones. This can provide beyond line of sight comms without satellites. This can be useful if this happens:

https://spacenews.com/china-silent-south-korea-concerned-over-debris-created-by-russias-anti-satellite-missile-test/

With current geopolitical concerns relating to Russia and their rogue allies (eg. P5) it's now a distinct possibility. 

But for civilian use there may be interest in setting up robust, resilient networks over HF to supplement optical fiber as well as satellite. Tonga's recent experience with severed cables caused by undersea volcanic eruption is a perfect example. This can at least get a message out when regular means fail. 

Ria
N2RJ 
From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:14:33 AM
To: McIntyre, Kristen, K6WX (Dir, PD) <kristen@alum.mit.edu>
Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
Subject: [arrl-odv:33345] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022
 

NOW it makes sense!

 

’73 de JIM N2ZZ

 

From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Kristen McIntyre
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:58 PM
To: Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu>
Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org>
Subject: [arrl-odv:33342] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022

 

 (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations)  should read (epsilon and mu respectively in Maxwell’s Equations)



Sorry.



On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Kristen McIntyre <kristen@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

 

Unfortunately for the world, the author of that article does not assert that so-called quantum networks represent any kind of new faster-than-light physics.  Networks that move information faster than light would violate causality.

 

 

Violating causality would have deep implications for our understanding of the physical world.  It would say that things like Special and General Relativity are wrong, something that we have not observed thus far.

 

Quantum entanglement only yields qubits, which are not bits - they do not contain information per se (see Bell’s Inequality).  They allow some aspects of cryptography and synchronization to be realized, though.  Specifically, they allow one to tell if the information has been observed.  Observation ‘collapses the wave function’, destroying the entangled state.  There is no faking that.  And this collapse appears to happen instantly, even across large distances.  This has been known for decades.  Try as you might, though, no information can be transmitted this way.  At least, that’s our current understanding of physics.

 

The important thing to understand, though, is that actual information, in the physics definition, cannot be transmitted faster than c.  Radio and light, both being electromagnetic phenomena, operate at c, mitigated by the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability (mu and epsilon respectively in Maxwell’s Equations) of the medium.

 

There’s a bit more information at this link (sorry for Wikipedia again), though it’s hardly comprehensive.  These kinds of point-to-point quantum networks that use qubits to detect observation have been around for at least 20 years.  The new thing in the article is having multiple nodes without an N^2 growth in processing.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_network#Quantum_networks_for_communication



On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> wrote:

 

Interesting… I’ve seen these antennas go up and read about the tech, but it is a short term solution. Networks are on the way that will present data faster than light-limited energy can.

 

The Next Big technology to reduce time of propagation issues – Time to Data – is quantum networking. From device to device, there is zero time delay in quantum entangled particles, and data rates are astronomical. Right now, it is distance limited for one hop. But still faster than radio. 

 

Time to market for a reasonable product is realistically less than two years. There are already quantum networks in use.

 

Einstein called quantum entanglement “spooky action at a distance.”  No longer so spooky, it is being deployed in computing and networks.

 

Article that has a rudimentary explanation:

 

--

Mickey Baker, N4MB

Director, Southeastern Division

ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio®

Phone (561) 320-2775

Email: n4mb@arrl.org

 

From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM
To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>, arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
Subject: [arrl-odv:33336] Re: Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022

No surprise whatsoever. In fact, HF is being sought after by high frequency traders. However the FCC has largely roadblocked them. There is a station up at the alpine tower in NJ (WIPE shortwave) that was supposedly all ready to go. 

 

Ben Kobb over at the SWLing post has some articles:

 

 

Well worth a read. It is inevitable that if the FCC acts and greenlights low latency trading that these will probably be our new neighbors are on HF.

 

73

Ria

N2RJ

From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:44:21 PM
To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
Subject: [arrl-odv:33335] Commercial expansion into HF Wideband - New webinar: HF in a nutshell January 31, 2022

 

A communications technology client in the state of Delaware just invited me to use their invitation, as their guest, to this ROHDE & SCHWARZ Webinar. I am going to attend. What caught my attention is theHF Wideband reference.  Here is an excerpt from the brochure and invitation. Perhaps some on this board already deals with this or is otherwise familiar.  Not sure what this portends for amateur radio’s contributions to EmComm HF activities or even future spectrum threats:

 

“We hereby invite you to our introductory webinar, “HF in a nutshell,” which covers currently available beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) communications and focuses on high frequency (HF) communications.

 

HF communications technology is reliable, proven and has been in service for decades. This webinar is the first in a series covering HF topics and will illustrate that HF communications is in no way your grandparents’ technology, but rather THE communications solution for the future. You will receive an overview of currently available BLOS communications solutions and the latest developments in this field, i.e. HF versus satellite communications (SATCOM) Rohde & Schwarz experts will highlight all the relevant benefits of HF, including robustness, capabilities and costs (CAPEX, OPEX). The webinar will be rounded off with an overview of HF wideband – a current development – and its pros and cons.  “

 

 

 

Bob Famiglio, K3RF

Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division

610-359-7300

<image001.png>

Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections

 

 

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                                    -Kristen (K6WX)

"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" 
                                       Laurie Anderson

(--... ...--  -.. .  -.- -.... .-- -..-)

 

 

                                    -Kristen (K6WX)

"Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" 
                                       Laurie Anderson

(--... ...--  -.. .  -.- -.... .-- -..-)