[arrl-odv:19311] Re: RE: ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing
Right, Jim, I share your concern based on the rather one-sided agreement that they initially sent over. I don't know anything about this company other than what showed up in that draft contract, and will leave that to Bob I. and Harold K. to address. Looking only to the contract issue, I think we can get it into a form that will be safe enough for us to sign as a "trial run" agreement. We could see how the experience goes. But it was not a confidence-inspiring draft agreement they initially sent over, that is sure. Harold and I are fixing it up now, unless you folks want to go a different way. 73, Chris W3KD Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret, Imlay & Tepper. P.C. 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Jim Weaver K8JE <K8JE@ARRL.org> To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2010 4:04 pm Subject: RE: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing I appreciate Chris' comment about the legal quality of the agreement offered ARRL by the telemarketing firm we appear to plan to use in the member recruitment test. Knowing how Chris viewed this document makes me feel quite uneasy over the quality of the firm, itself. I would have expected that a well-established, high-quality firm would have the legal sense to have dotted the proverbial i's and crossed the proverbial t's in their contracts without having the need for this called to their attention by a potential customer. Are we certain we want to employ this organization? (Rhetoric question.) 73, Jim Jim Weaver, K8JE, Director ARRL Great Lakes Division 5065 Bethany Rd. Mason, OH 45040; Tel. 513-459-1661 ARRL, The national organization for Amateur Radio From: Chris Imlay [mailto:w3kd@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 12:21 PM To: arrl-odv Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing I am constrained to note that the draft agreement that this telemarketing firm provided to ARRL initially was clearly not in acceptable form when first delivered to us, but it is apparently in the process of (re)negotiation now, so we will see what an edited version looks like. The issues include not only the Do Not Call List compliance, appropriately mentioned by Jim Weaver, but also their plans for handling credit card numbers in the course of relaying them to ARRL for processing, and their methods of compliance with our privacy obligations. There is no doubt but that the telemarketing firm is acting as our agent, and therefore we are liable for any of their foibles, so some care is called for here. 73, Chris W3KD Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret, Imlay & Tepper. P.C. 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B <wj1b@arrl.org> To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Cc: arrl-odv@arrl.org Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 2:40 pm Subject: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing Bob Inderbitzen is on vacation starting today. But to answer some of your questions here is what I know: 1. This is a limited test to between 1800 and 2000 lapsed members. 2. The company that we will contract with specializes in Association Telemarketing and is sensitive to member association issues. 3. As an organization that does strictly telemarketing, I would hope that they comply with all applicable regulations However, we have not signed the agreement yet. Chris Imlay and I have been discussing it we will make sure that it is correct and complies with applicable regulations and our internal policies. Harold Harold Kramer, WJ1B Chief Operating Officer ARRL -the national association for Amateur Radio 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 (860) 594 -0220 From: Jim Weaver K8JE [mailto:K8JE@ARRL.org] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:19 PM To: arrl-odv Cc: arrl-odv Subject: RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing Bob, Inasmuch as Dick expressed concerns over telemarketing by ARRL, I wonder if we take adequate steps to ensure any telemarketer we use observes existing No Call legislation? Based upon the relatively few telemarketing calls I have received after putting my phone numbers on the federal No Call list I estimate that over 50% of the calls made to me appear to be in willful violation of the these laws. Most of the illegal callers are sufficiently crafty as to avoid identification. I don't believe ARRL should be put in a similar position by a telemarketer. I suspect you've taken care of such possibilities, but would like to know what is done. Tnx, Jim Jim Weaver, K8JE, Director ARRL Great Lakes Division 5065 Bethany Rd. Mason, OH 45040; Tel. 513-459-1661 ARRL, The national organization for Amateur Radio From: dick@pobox.com [mailto:dick@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:50 PM To: arrl-odv Cc: Bob Inderbitzen NQ1R Subject: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing 20 AUG 2010 - 1249 CDT I support proactive ARRL member recruitment except when it generates poor results and potentially angers some amateur radio licensees receiving the phone call. I do not know the detailed results of our first telemarketing trial (see IN-Newsletter excerpt below), but the general assessment of this trial leads me to believe that telemarketing will be counter-productive; it will not be worth the expense. I receive a small, but continuing, number of negative comments about our affinity partners' marketing activities. I know of nobody who welcomes junk U.S. mail, but at least we are not forced to read it. However, virtually everybody hates telephone sales calls because they are intrusive and disrupt the recipient's activities. I support four non-amateur radio charitable (501-3c) tax-exempt organizations and I have "trained" them to not call me. Two tax-exempts would not put me on a no-call list. They no longer receive any support from me. I don't want the ARRL to be put in the position of having to filter (at extra cost) it's potential member market because this would mean we would have permanently lost a percentage of this market. - Dick Isely, W9GIG ========================================================================== IN-Newsletter Vol. 33, No. 33 August 18, 2010 -- Covers the period August 8-14. Upcoming Meetings and Events United States Telecommunications Training Institute (USTTI) September 27-October 1 – ARRL HQ Executive Committee Meeting October 23 @ 9:00am in St. Louis, MO Ballot Counting for Director/Vice Director Elections November 19 in Newington, CT <SNIP> Sales and Marketing Reported by Bob Inderbitzen, NQ1R A large membership campaign is being prepared for mailing in September. Diane Petrilli is exploring a second telemarketing trial (one was conducted last year with mixed/poor results)involving a telemarketing firm that has experience making outbound calls for membership organizations. We are pleased with the high response rate to an on-line Membership Benefits Survey. The survey invitation was sent by email to a sample group. The survey was also mailed to members that did not respond, and to another sample of members without known email addresses. Results will be analyzed and reported in late September. Our affinity benefit partners are all gearing-up for program mailings during the next 2 months: ARRL Visa credit card (US Bank), ARRL Equipment Insurance Program (Marsh), and group-rate home and auto insurance (MetLife). <SNIP> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/20/10 02:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3088 - Release Date: 08/22/10 14:35:00
Chris, I failed to address the final clause in your final sentence (below). I have no desire to become truly involved in the day-to-day operation of the HQ crew. It falls to Dave to administer projects consistent with good business practices following guidance established by the Board. Regarding the telemarketing project, I don't see any of us directors who have commented have indicated a desire to become involved in the day-to-day operation at HQ. Conversely, I fully believe that the project offers enough potential pitfalls so as to cause HQ management to be very cautious in determining to proceed with it and at least equally cautious in selecting a telemarketing firm (or in house personnel) to undertake the work. I fully accept that Dave as CEO and "Mr. Amateur Radio" is just as dedicated to maintaining the integrity of ARRL as are the directors. One thought that has occurred to me is the possibility of having selected HQ personnel who are tuned in to the feelings and sensitivities of our members monitor some of the telemarketing calls. In this way, we could determine ourselves if the telemarketers' contact with potential members meets the ARRL standard. Given the modern state of telephone communications I would think doing this would be practical. If monitoring is done, it could involve previously-undisclosed calls by simply letting the telemarketing firm know monitoring will be done at unannounced times. We would need to know when calls for our project were being made and to have links established to the relevant lines. I would think that the standard "This call may be monitored for quality assurance . . . " statement included in the scripts for all calls would cover us. 73, Jim Jim Weaver, K8JE, Director ARRL Great Lakes Division 5065 Bethany Rd. Mason, OH 45040; Tel. 513-459-1661 ARRL, The national organization for Amateur Radio _____ From: Chris Imlay [mailto:w3kd@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:45 PM To: K8JE@ARRL.org; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing Right, Jim, I share your concern based on the rather one-sided agreement that they initially sent over. I don't know anything about this company other than what showed up in that draft contract, and will leave that to Bob I. and Harold K. to address. Looking only to the contract issue, I think we can get it into a form that will be safe enough for us to sign as a "trial run" agreement. We could see how the experience goes. But it was not a confidence-inspiring draft agreement they initially sent over, that is sure. Harold and I are fixing it up now, unless you folks want to go a different way. 73, Chris W3KD Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret, Imlay & Tepper. P.C. 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Jim Weaver K8JE <K8JE@ARRL.org> To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2010 4:04 pm Subject: RE: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing I appreciate Chris' comment about the legal quality of the agreement offered ARRL by the telemarketing firm we appear to plan to use in the member recruitment test. Knowing how Chris viewed this document makes me feel quite uneasy over the quality of the firm, itself. I would have expected that a well-established, high-quality firm would have the legal sense to have dotted the proverbial i's and crossed the proverbial t's in their contracts without having the need for this called to their attention by a potential customer. Are we certain we want to employ this organization? (Rhetoric question.) 73, Jim Jim Weaver, K8JE, Director ARRL Great Lakes Division 5065 Bethany Rd. Mason, OH 45040; Tel. 513-459-1661 ARRL, The national organization for Amateur Radio _____ From: Chris Imlay [mailto:w3kd@aol.com <mailto:w3kd@aol.com?> ] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 12:21 PM To: arrl-odv Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing I am constrained to note that the draft agreement that this telemarketing firm provided to ARRL initially was clearly not in acceptable form when first delivered to us, but it is apparently in the process of (re)negotiation now, so we will see what an edited version looks like. The issues include not only the Do Not Call List compliance, appropriately mentioned by Jim Weaver, but also their plans for handling credit card numbers in the course of relaying them to ARRL for processing, and their methods of compliance with our privacy obligations. There is no doubt but that the telemarketing firm is acting as our agent, and therefore we are liable for any of their foibles, so some care is called for here. 73, Chris W3KD Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret, Imlay & Tepper. P.C. 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B <wj1b@arrl.org> To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Cc: arrl-odv@arrl.org Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 2:40 pm Subject: [arrl-odv:19300] RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing Bob Inderbitzen is on vacation starting today. But to answer some of your questions here is what I know: 1. This is a limited test to between 1800 and 2000 lapsed members. 2. The company that we will contract with specializes in Association Telemarketing and is sensitive to member association issues. 3. As an organization that does strictly telemarketing, I would hope that they comply with all applicable regulations However, we have not signed the agreement yet. Chris Imlay and I have been discussing it we will make sure that it is correct and complies with applicable regulations and our internal policies. Harold Harold Kramer, WJ1B Chief Operating Officer ARRL -the national association for Amateur Radio 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 (860) 594 -0220 From: Jim Weaver K8JE [mailto:K8JE@ARRL.org <mailto:K8JE@ARRL.org?> ] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:19 PM To: arrl-odv Cc: arrl-odv Subject: RE: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing Bob, Inasmuch as Dick expressed concerns over telemarketing by ARRL, I wonder if we take adequate steps to ensure any telemarketer we use observes existing No Call legislation? Based upon the relatively few telemarketing calls I have received after putting my phone numbers on the federal No Call list I estimate that over 50% of the calls made to me appear to be in willful violation of the these laws. Most of the illegal callers are sufficiently crafty as to avoid identification. I don't believe ARRL should be put in a similar position by a telemarketer. I suspect you've taken care of such possibilities, but would like to know what is done. Tnx, Jim Jim Weaver, K8JE, Director ARRL Great Lakes Division 5065 Bethany Rd. Mason, OH 45040; Tel. 513-459-1661 ARRL, The national organization for Amateur Radio _____ From: dick@pobox.com [mailto:dick@pobox.com <mailto:dick@pobox.com?> ] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:50 PM To: arrl-odv Cc: Bob Inderbitzen NQ1R Subject: [arrl-odv:19297] ARRL Member Recruitment Telemarketing 20 AUG 2010 - 1249 CDT I support proactive ARRL member recruitment except when it generates poor results and potentially angers some amateur radio licensees receiving the phone call. I do not know the detailed results of our first telemarketing trial (see IN-Newsletter excerpt below), but the general assessment of this trial leads me to believe that telemarketing will be counter-productive; it will not be worth the expense. I receive a small, but continuing, number of negative comments about our affinity partners' marketing activities. I know of nobody who welcomes junk U.S. mail, but at least we are not forced to read it. However, virtually everybody hates telephone sales calls because they are intrusive and disrupt the recipient's activities. I support four non-amateur radio charitable (501-3c) tax-exempt organizations and I have "trained" them to not call me. Two tax-exempts would not put me on a no-call list. They no longer receive any support from me. I don't want the ARRL to be put in the position of having to filter (at extra cost) it's potential member market because this would mean we would have permanently lost a percentage of this market. - Dick Isely, W9GIG ========================================================================== IN-Newsletter Vol. 33, No. 33 August 18, 2010 -- Covers the period August 8-14. Upcoming Meetings and Events United States Telecommunications Training Institute (USTTI) September 27-October 1 - ARRL HQ Executive Committee Meeting October 23 @ 9:00am in St. Louis, MO Ballot Counting for Director/Vice Director Elections November 19 in Newington, CT <SNIP> Sales and Marketing Reported by Bob Inderbitzen, NQ1R A large membership campaign is being prepared for mailing in September. Diane Petrilli is exploring a second telemarketing trial (one was conducted last year with mixed/poor results)-involving a telemarketing firm that has experience making outbound calls for membership organizations. We are pleased with the high response rate to an on-line Membership Benefits Survey. The survey invitation was sent by email to a sample group. The survey was also mailed to members that did not respond, and to another sample of members without known email addresses. Results will be analyzed and reported in late September. Our affinity benefit partners are all gearing-up for program mailings during the next 2 months: ARRL Visa credit card (US Bank), ARRL Equipment Insurance Program (Marsh), and group-rate home and auto insurance (MetLife). <SNIP> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/20/10 02:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3088 - Release Date: 08/22/10 14:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3088 - Release Date: 08/23/10 02:35:00
participants (2)
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Chris Imlay -
Jim Weaver K8JE