[arrl-odv:28490] Concerns about ADA accessibility
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously. Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility? Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen? I would hope that we are on top of this. Ria N2RJ
Hi Ria, Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that. If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time. 73, Howard On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
Howard: If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment. I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did. Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it. GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things. If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Ria, Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that. If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time. 73, Howard On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Hi Bob, Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things. I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week. In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant. 73, Howard Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0> Telephone: +1 860-594-0404<tel:+1%20860-594-0404> email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>> wrote: Howard: If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment. I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did. Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it. GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things. If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Ria, Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that. If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time. 73, Howard On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote: A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously. Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility? Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen? I would hope that we are on top of this. Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv <Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf> <Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf> <Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG>
Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate? Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now? Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Bob, Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things. I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week. In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant. 73, Howard Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA <x-apple-data-detectors://1/0> Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 <tel:+1%20860-594-0404> email: hmichel@arrl.org <mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> > wrote: Howard: If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment. I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did. Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it. GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things. If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com <mailto:rjairam@gmail.com> >; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Ria, Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that. If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time. 73, Howard On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote: A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously. Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility? Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen? I would hope that we are on top of this. Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv <Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf> <Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf> <Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG>
Howard We should check with our insurers to see if we have coverage. Bob is correct — there are attorneys looking for these type of suits, because they are easy to win. So, whether we are in compliance or not - we should have insurance coverage. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office:512-445-6262 Cell:512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *_______________________________________***
Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate?
Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now?
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
cid:a4a12f0b-0468-4a39-b953-31b2a3da8564
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) *Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM *To:* Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> *Cc:* Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things.
I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week.
In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant.
73, Howard
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA <x-apple-data-detectors://1/0> Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 <tel:+1%20860-594-0404> email: hmichel@arrl.org <mailto:hmichel@arrl.org>
On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>> wrote:
Howard:
If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment.
I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did.
Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it.
GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things.
If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF>
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com <mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Ria,
Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that.
If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time.
73, Howard
On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the
possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans
with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal
action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take
every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with
regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria
N2RJ
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org
https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
<Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf>
<Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf>
<Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I have sent off inquiries to both of our insurance brokers about coverage. I will follow up when I hear back. Diane Middleton, W2DLM Chief Financial Officer ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 (860) 594-0225 From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of James Tiemstra Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 10:52 PM To: Stratton, John, N5AUS (Dir, WG) <n5aus@n5aus.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28499] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Yes, this is serious stuff. Many years ago, I had a disabled partner who specialized in the early ADA litigation. The statute provided for treble damages and the recovery of attorneys' fees so there is a great deal of money at stake. Compliance should be the order of the day. Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT Pacific Division Director [cid:image001.png@01D548FD.C46AB170] On August 1, 2019 at 7:33 PM John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com<mailto:N5AUS@n5aus.com>> wrote: Howard We should check with our insurers to see if we have coverage. Bob is correct — there are attorneys looking for these type of suits, because they are easy to win. So, whether we are in compliance or not - we should have insurance coverage. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate? Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now? Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:a4a12f0b-0468-4a39-b953-31b2a3da8564] www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net><mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com><mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org><mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Bob, Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things. I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week. In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant. 73, Howard Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>> wrote: Howard: If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment. I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did. Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it. GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things. If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Ria, Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that. If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time. 73, Howard On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote: A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously. Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility? Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen? I would hope that we are on top of this. Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv <Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf> <Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf> <Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Betsey Doane, K1EIC Might be a good resource on this subject. As she is blind. Betsey, as some of you will remember is the past SM for CT. I have known her for many, many years, and I can count numerous times when she has brought this subject up. Mostly having to do with our SM conference calls and the fact the platform we were using did not allow her software to read the screen. She would be first hand information on how well our current web platform operates with the software she uses. A news story was ran about her last year, and is included below. Mark, KB7HDX Foundation to Honor Former ARRL Connecticut Section Manager Betsey Doane, K1EIC 04/16/2018 Former Connecticut Section Manager and retired professor Betsey Doane, K1EIC, will receive the Housatonic Community College Foundation (HCCF) Lifetime Achievement Award on April 19, during the college’s 50th anniversary community celebration. Doane has been on the cutting edge of major industry advancements in teaching techniques for the visually impaired. She has worked toward developing computer literacy courses and has participated as a panelist at national and international conferences. Doane served as Connecticut Section Manager from 1991 until 2016, her 25 uninterrupted years of service establishing her as the dean of Section Managers when she decided not to seek another term. Doane and her twin sister, Barb Lombardi, K1EIR, were licensed in 1958, and both began handling message traffic soon after. She has been an Official Emergency Station since April 2010. On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:44 AM Middleton, Diane, W2DLM (CFO) < dmiddleton@arrl.org> wrote:
I have sent off inquiries to both of our insurance brokers about coverage. I will follow up when I hear back.
*Diane Middleton, W2DLM*
*Chief Financial Officer*
*ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio®*
*225 Main Street*
*Newington, CT 06111*
*(860) 594-0225*
*From:* arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] *On Behalf Of *James Tiemstra *Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2019 10:52 PM *To:* Stratton, John, N5AUS (Dir, WG) <n5aus@n5aus.com>; arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28499] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Yes, this is serious stuff. Many years ago, I had a disabled partner who specialized in the early ADA litigation. The statute provided for treble damages and the recovery of attorneys' fees so there is a great deal of money at stake. Compliance should be the order of the day.
*Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT*
*Pacific Division Director*
On August 1, 2019 at 7:33 PM John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com> wrote:
Howard
We should check with our insurers to see if we have coverage.
Bob is correct — there are attorneys looking for these type of suits, because they are easy to win. So, whether we are in compliance or not - we should have insurance coverage.
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office: 512-445-6262
Cell: 512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________*
Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate?
Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now?
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF *
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division *
*610-359-7300 *
[image: cid:a4a12f0b-0468-4a39-b953-31b2a3da8564]
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) *Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM *To:* Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> *Cc:* Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com> <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things.
I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week.
In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant.
73, Howard
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> wrote:
Howard:
If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment.
I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did.
Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it.
GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things.
If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Ria,
Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that.
If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time.
73, Howard
On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the
possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans
with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal
action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take
every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with
regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria
N2RJ
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org <hmichel@arrl.org>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
<Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf>
<Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf>
<Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG>
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org
https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Good job of “remembering” Mark! Betsy would be a great resource for this issue. I’m sure she’d be willing to help. As we move forward with Lifelong Learning Project and the new website, we should keep this in mind and be sure we design in these capabilities on our new platforms. 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com> wrote:
Betsey Doane, K1EIC Might be a good resource on this subject. As she is blind. Betsey, as some of you will remember is the past SM for CT. I have known her for many, many years, and I can count numerous times when she has brought this subject up. Mostly having to do with our SM conference calls and the fact the platform we were using did not allow her software to read the screen. She would be first hand information on how well our current web platform operates with the software she uses.
A news story was ran about her last year, and is included below.
Mark, KB7HDX
Foundation to Honor Former ARRL Connecticut Section Manager Betsey Doane, K1EIC
04/16/2018 Former Connecticut Section Manager and retired professor Betsey Doane, K1EIC, will receive the Housatonic Community College Foundation (HCCF) Lifetime Achievement Award on April 19, during the college’s 50th anniversary community celebration.
Doane has been on the cutting edge of major industry advancements in teaching techniques for the visually impaired. She has worked toward developing computer literacy courses and has participated as a panelist at national and international conferences.
Doane served as Connecticut Section Manager from 1991 until 2016, her 25 uninterrupted years of service establishing her as the dean of Section Managers when she decided not to seek another term. Doane and her twin sister, Barb Lombardi, K1EIR, were licensed in 1958, and both began handling message traffic soon after. She has been an Official Emergency Station since April 2010.
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:44 AM Middleton, Diane, W2DLM (CFO) <dmiddleton@arrl.org> wrote: I have sent off inquiries to both of our insurance brokers about coverage. I will follow up when I hear back.
Diane Middleton, W2DLM
Chief Financial Officer
ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio®
225 Main Street
Newington, CT 06111
(860) 594-0225
From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of James Tiemstra Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 10:52 PM To: Stratton, John, N5AUS (Dir, WG) <n5aus@n5aus.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28499] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Yes, this is serious stuff. Many years ago, I had a disabled partner who specialized in the early ADA litigation. The statute provided for treble damages and the recovery of attorneys' fees so there is a great deal of money at stake. Compliance should be the order of the day.
Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT
Pacific Division Director
<image001.png>
On August 1, 2019 at 7:33 PM John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com> wrote:
Howard
We should check with our insurers to see if we have coverage.
Bob is correct — there are attorneys looking for these type of suits, because they are easy to win. So, whether we are in compliance or not - we should have insurance coverage.
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director West Gulf Division
Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232
_______________________________________ Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate?
Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now?
Bob Famiglio, K3RF
Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division
610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
From: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things.
I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week.
In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant.
73, Howard
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> wrote:
Howard:
If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment.
I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did.
Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it.
GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things.
If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Ria,
Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that.
If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time.
73, Howard
On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the
possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans
with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal
action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take
every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with
regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria
N2RJ
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org
https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
<Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf>
<Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf>
<Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Dear Officers, Directors, and Vice Directors, Thank you for you attention to this issue. ADA compliance is undefined as a technical spec or Federal regulation. i.e. compliance is whatever the courts say is compliance and likewise non-compliance. Having said that, there are accessibility guidelines, Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG), that IT looks to. Is our site WCAG compliant? No it is not! We know that. The question is are we making reasonable accommodations. There are many offers for $1000 "fixes" out there that will do something to a canned WordPress or GoDaddy site. They will not help with our Fathom built Fraken-site. Even small and simple changes such as deleting Lauren from the site has taken both Carla and Dee hours to implement. And that is just to modify something designed to be modified! What is reasonable to spend on a site that we are replacing? I will work with Mike to find any low hanging fruit, but I think our resources would be better spent on making sure our future sites are WCAG compliant. FYI, Personify (our new AMS software) meets WCAG 2.1 guidelines. The requirements for Lifelong Learning (Mintz&Hoke) include meeting WCAG 2.1. But ARRL is responsible for ensuring the content in LLL is up to WCAG levels. While this issue has my attention, and I will be having meetings next week to see what we can do in the short term, maybe the issue is actually the story that we are not telling, that is, we hear you and are working to improve your user-experiences. 73, Howard, WB2ITX On 08/02/2019 11:54 AM, David Norris via arrl-odv wrote: Good job of “remembering” Mark! Betsy would be a great resource for this issue. I’m sure she’d be willing to help. As we move forward with Lifelong Learning Project and the new website, we should keep this in mind and be sure we design in these capabilities on our new platforms. 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com<mailto:kb7hdx@gmail.com>> wrote: Betsey Doane, K1EIC Might be a good resource on this subject. As she is blind. Betsey, as some of you will remember is the past SM for CT. I have known her for many, many years, and I can count numerous times when she has brought this subject up. Mostly having to do with our SM conference calls and the fact the platform we were using did not allow her software to read the screen. She would be first hand information on how well our current web platform operates with the software she uses. A news story was ran about her last year, and is included below. Mark, KB7HDX Foundation to Honor Former ARRL Connecticut Section Manager Betsey Doane, K1EIC 04/16/2018 Former Connecticut Section Manager and retired professor Betsey Doane, K1EIC, will receive the Housatonic Community College Foundation (HCCF) Lifetime Achievement Award on April 19, during the college’s 50th anniversary community celebration. Doane has been on the cutting edge of major industry advancements in teaching techniques for the visually impaired. She has worked toward developing computer literacy courses and has participated as a panelist at national and international conferences. Doane served as Connecticut Section Manager from 1991 until 2016, her 25 uninterrupted years of service establishing her as the dean of Section Managers when she decided not to seek another term. Doane and her twin sister, Barb Lombardi, K1EIR, were licensed in 1958, and both began handling message traffic soon after. She has been an Official Emergency Station since April 2010. On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:44 AM Middleton, Diane, W2DLM (CFO) <dmiddleton@arrl.org<mailto:dmiddleton@arrl.org>> wrote: I have sent off inquiries to both of our insurance brokers about coverage. I will follow up when I hear back. Diane Middleton, W2DLM Chief Financial Officer ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 (860) 594-0225 From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>] On Behalf Of James Tiemstra Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 10:52 PM To: Stratton, John, N5AUS (Dir, WG) <n5aus@n5aus.com<mailto:n5aus@n5aus.com>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:28499] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Yes, this is serious stuff. Many years ago, I had a disabled partner who specialized in the early ADA litigation. The statute provided for treble damages and the recovery of attorneys' fees so there is a great deal of money at stake. Compliance should be the order of the day. Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT Pacific Division Director <image001.png> On August 1, 2019 at 7:33 PM John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com<mailto:N5AUS@n5aus.com>> wrote: Howard We should check with our insurers to see if we have coverage. Bob is correct — there are attorneys looking for these type of suits, because they are easy to win. So, whether we are in compliance or not - we should have insurance coverage. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate? Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now? Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:a4a12f0b-0468-4a39-b953-31b2a3da8564] www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net><mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com><mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org><mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Bob, Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things. I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week. In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant. 73, Howard Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>> wrote: Howard: If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment. I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did. Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it. GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things. If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility Hi Ria, Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that. If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time. 73, Howard On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote: A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously. Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility? Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen? I would hope that we are on top of this. Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv <Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf> <Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf> <Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org>
FWIW, the helper application for LoTW, TQSL, was re-written a few years ago to make it compatible with the most popular screen reader in use by the blind. However, this is the full extent of changes that were made, and it, too, should be examined for ADA compliance. The good news is that this app is maintained by volunteer K1MU, so any updates we discover are required can be made without significant engagement of resources at ARRL HQ. 73, Greg, K0GW On Friday, August 2, 2019, Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors, and Vice Directors,
Thank you for you attention to this issue. ADA compliance is undefined as a technical spec or Federal regulation. i.e. compliance is whatever the courts say is compliance and likewise non-compliance. Having said that, there are accessibility guidelines, Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG), that IT looks to.
Is our site WCAG compliant? No it is not! We know that. The question is are we making reasonable accommodations.
There are many offers for $1000 "fixes" out there that will do something to a canned WordPress or GoDaddy site. They will not help with our Fathom built Fraken-site. Even small and simple changes such as deleting Lauren from the site has taken both Carla and Dee hours to implement. And that is just to modify something designed to be modified!
What is reasonable to spend on a site that we are replacing? I will work with Mike to find any low hanging fruit, but I think our resources would be better spent on making sure our future sites are WCAG compliant.
FYI, Personify (our new AMS software) meets WCAG 2.1 guidelines. The requirements for Lifelong Learning (Mintz&Hoke) include meeting WCAG 2.1. But ARRL is responsible for ensuring the content in LLL is up to WCAG levels.
While this issue has my attention, and I will be having meetings next week to see what we can do in the short term, maybe the issue is actually the story that we are not telling, that is, we hear you and are working to improve your user-experiences.
73, Howard, WB2ITX On 08/02/2019 11:54 AM, David Norris via arrl-odv wrote:
Good job of “remembering” Mark!
Betsy would be a great resource for this issue. I’m sure she’d be willing to help.
As we move forward with Lifelong Learning Project and the new website, we should keep this in mind and be sure we design in these capabilities on our new platforms.
73
David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com> wrote:
Betsey Doane, K1EIC Might be a good resource on this subject. As she is blind. Betsey, as some of you will remember is the past SM for CT. I have known her for many, many years, and I can count numerous times when she has brought this subject up. Mostly having to do with our SM conference calls and the fact the platform we were using did not allow her software to read the screen. She would be first hand information on how well our current web platform operates with the software she uses.
A news story was ran about her last year, and is included below.
Mark, KB7HDX
Foundation to Honor Former ARRL Connecticut Section Manager Betsey Doane, K1EIC 04/16/2018
Former Connecticut Section Manager and retired professor Betsey Doane, K1EIC, will receive the Housatonic Community College Foundation (HCCF) Lifetime Achievement Award on April 19, during the college’s 50th anniversary community celebration.
Doane has been on the cutting edge of major industry advancements in teaching techniques for the visually impaired. She has worked toward developing computer literacy courses and has participated as a panelist at national and international conferences.
Doane served as Connecticut Section Manager from 1991 until 2016, her 25 uninterrupted years of service establishing her as the dean of Section Managers when she decided not to seek another term. Doane and her twin sister, Barb Lombardi, K1EIR, were licensed in 1958, and both began handling message traffic soon after. She has been an Official Emergency Station since April 2010.
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:44 AM Middleton, Diane, W2DLM (CFO) < dmiddleton@arrl.org> wrote:
I have sent off inquiries to both of our insurance brokers about coverage. I will follow up when I hear back.
*Diane Middleton, W2DLM*
*Chief Financial Officer*
*ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio®*
*225 Main Street <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street+%0D%0A+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>*
*Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street+%0D%0A+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>*
*(860) 594-0225*
*From:* arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] *On Behalf Of *James Tiemstra *Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2019 10:52 PM *To:* Stratton, John, N5AUS (Dir, WG) <n5aus@n5aus.com>; arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28499] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Yes, this is serious stuff. Many years ago, I had a disabled partner who specialized in the early ADA litigation. The statute provided for treble damages and the recovery of attorneys' fees so there is a great deal of money at stake. Compliance should be the order of the day.
*Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT*
*Pacific Division Director*
<image001.png>
On August 1, 2019 at 7:33 PM John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com> wrote:
Howard
We should check with our insurers to see if we have coverage.
Bob is correct — there are attorneys looking for these type of suits, because they are easy to win. So, whether we are in compliance or not - we should have insurance coverage.
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office: 512-445-6262
Cell: 512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________*
Sure. I would be happy to discuss it with them. I just do not see the reasonable accommodation on our site, but I hope I am wrong. Reasonable costs for an entity our size is likely between say 2% to 5 % of the cost of the development of the site. So, if we spent only $100K, $2 to 5K is likely reasonable. I'm told we spent much more on development of the site. But the guidelines for ADA have some tests for website compliance. They are summarized in the article I included. If we are not meeting those, I would argue we are likely not compliant. Also, proof of unreasonable costs, at least for physical plant accommodations such as handicap ramps for retroactive compliance require expert opinions as to minimum costs so as to defend against non-compliance based on unreasonable costs, so that question is relevant. What was our proposed cost estimate?
Let me know what works for you and I will schedule that time. There is much material available teaching website compliance. If the local firm confirms compliance, please let us know that too. I assume they provided a written opinion that we are in compliance now?
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF *
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division *
*610-359-7300 *
[image: cid:a4a12f0b-0468-4a39-b953-31b2a3da8564]
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) *Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:16 PM *To:* Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> *Cc:* Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com> <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* Re: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your email. I never said they claimed we were providing everything possible, just that, in their opinion, we had provided reasonable accommodations. Having said that, reasonable implies reasonable cost. I am not aware of the software tool you speak about. Can you provide more specifics? I’d like too look at it. $1000 is nothing in the scheme of things.
I’ve also sent your information to Murtha Cullina. Depending on what they say, perhaps we could schedule a call next week.
In any case, we will insure our new web site including the lifelong learning site are ADA compliant.
73, Howard
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> wrote:
Howard:
If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment.
I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did.
Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it.
GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things.
If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Ria,
Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that.
If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time.
73, Howard
On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the
possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans
with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal
action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take
every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with
regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria
N2RJ
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org <hmichel@arrl.org>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
<Fed Complaint NY ADA noncompliance redacted info.pdf>
<Class Action Plaintiff Targets Universities and Colleges for Website Accessibility Claims_ Fordham and Three Others Sued in One Week . Fredrikson & Byron, P.A.pdf>
<Sample of ADA compliant functions.JPG>
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org
https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
All This needs to be addressed as a priority. Besides the cost of being sued, the PR backlash would not be beneficial. Howard, please have the folks at Murtha contact Bob immediately. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office:512-445-6262 Cell:512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *_______________________________________*** ** On 8/1/19 1:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv wrote:
Howard:
If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment.
I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did.
Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it.
GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things.
If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Ria,
Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that.
If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time.
73, Howard
On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Consider as well the PR win if we get this right. Blind hams have been grumbling about us basically neglecting them. I think we should at least investigate it and look and see what we can do. I really don’t think we’ve done all we reasonably can. Ria N2RJ On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 9:32 AM John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com> wrote:
All
This needs to be addressed as a priority.
Besides the cost of being sued, the PR backlash would not be beneficial.
Howard, please have the folks at Murtha contact Bob immediately.
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office: 512-445-6262
Cell: 512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________* On 8/1/19 1:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv wrote:
Howard:
If our lawyers claim we are compliant, I would be surprised. I'd love to talk with them in case I misunderstand something. I have not found front page/home page ADA functionality on our site, but perhaps I have just missed it or misunderstand what they are doing. And it is not a saving if we mean well or have a compliant legal opinion - we either are or are not. Not knowing or honest intent is of no moment.
I had dealt with this issue professionally last year as general counsel for a reputable, well-run national franchise. I spent a day studying the issues as I too thought it was nonsense. Ria raised the issue months ago, so I thought it was under way. It was indeed shocking to find my client as a defendant in federal court. In their case they had actually been in compliance for 45 days before the suit was served from a federal district court, but we still had to prepare to defend under those facts and that cost more than settlement did.
Attached is the complaint - it is public record, is sent with my client's blessings, and has been the subject of other publicity as well- available on the public access page of the court files. I settled it for considerable money for nuisance value. That was 5 figures -very unfair, highway robbery, but a good lesson. This is still happening, and law firms are making big bucks handling it as class actions. It is only a matter of time. We may not have insurance coverage for ADA compliance, many policies exclude it.
GOOD NEWS, it cost very little to get into compliance. See the snippet I attached as a sample of how the fix appears on a home page. There are off-the-shelf IT tools now available. Ria will know and raised this issue as well. My client spent less than $1000 to fix it, miscellaneous in the scheme of things.
If you like, call me now or if you like have our lawyers call me today. I would be most pleased to assist - it is my obligation to help and not stick my head in the sand. It may be taking more time to talk about it than to fix it. And, we can brag that we are inclusive regarding our impaired members. Did I just miss the function on our site? Where is it? We can fix this in a few hours of time.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:22 PM To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ, (Dir, HD) <rjairam@gmail.com> <rjairam@gmail.com>; arrl-odv<arrl-odv@arrl.org> <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28492] Re: Concerns about ADA accessibility
Hi Ria,
Yes, we have had Murtha Cullina look at our compliance under the ADA act, first when you passed along a similar threat about providing QST for blind hams, and at my request to look at our web site and other possible areas of problems. Their reading is that we are expected to provide as "reasonable accommodation" and we are doing that.
If you think that this threat of legal action is real, or if you have specific information that I should pass to Murtha Cullina, call me in the office tomorrow. Otherwise I assume that we don't need to involve our lawyers or insurance broker at this time.
73, Howard
On 7/31/2019 8:05 PM, mailto:rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
A ham who wishes to remain anonymous for now has alerted me to the possibility that we may not be in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and that there has been even talk of legal action. I can't say if that is serious or not but you have to take every threat seriously.
Do we have any assessment of our current websites and other media with regard to accessibility?
Have we contacted counsel about the possibility that this may happen?
I would hope that we are on top of this.
Ria N2RJ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing listmailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur RadioR225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: mailto:hmichel@arrl.org <hmichel@arrl.org>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing listmailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing listarrl-odv@reflector.arrl.orghttps://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (9)
-
Bob Famiglio, K3RF -
David Norris -
G Widin -
James Tiemstra -
John Robert Stratton -
Mark J Tharp -
Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) -
Middleton, Diane, W2DLM (CFO) -
rjairam＠gmail.com