[arrl-odv:28810] Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk
Amazon Sidewalk wants to operate in the Amateur 900 MHz band. Anyone see this one coming? I didn't (and I operate SSB/CW in this band). Rod, K0DAS ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: jon jones <n0jk@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 4:57 PM Subject: Amazon Sidewalk To: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>, Rod Blocksome < rod.blocksome@gmail.com> ------------------------------ Are you familiar with Amazon Sidewalk ? This item caught my eye as it mentioned the 900 MHz amateur radio band. -- N0JK At its Alexa event <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-event-2019-echo-buds-echo-frames-alexa-everywhere-and-everything-announced/> on Wednesday, Amazon <https://www.cnet.com/tags/amazon/> announced a new low-bandwidth network called Amazon Sidewalk that could extend the range at which you can control your devices beyond what Bluetooth <https://www.cnet.com/tags/bluetooth/> and Wi-Fi <https://www.cnet.com/tags/wi-fi/> currently allow. Amazon Sidewalk taps the 900MHz band of the radio spectrum -- typically used for amateur radio -- to extend the distance at which you can control your smart home <https://www.cnet.com/smart-home/> devices, Dave Limp, senior vice president of devices and services said during the event. https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-... <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question - CNET <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> Internet Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question. The signal protocol will help you use smart gadgets outside your home. www.cnet.com
Bound to happen more and more as available spectrum get rare. I think we have only seen the beginning. Remember, Part 18 ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) devices have priority, though the unlicensed stuff like wireless phone extensions and such may not interfere with our use. If Amazon opens up there, the noise level will come up substantially for weak signal work. Is this why Amazon paid ham radio’s internet address custodians millions to get our address blocks? My neighbor uses analog FM wireless 5.1 channel TV speakers on that band which are not happy (they shut down while I transmit with 20 watts over 100 feet from them), but that type of unlicensed use is not protected. I recall the utility companies make use of the band for remote reading utility meters as well. I operate on 902 -927 FM with 2 Motorola radios including 1 Spectra base station and a MTX-9000 and 2 Alinco DJ-G29 transceivers. Nice band for that use. Not much we can do to prevent this, I fear. And isn’t 1296 MHz is under siege from the Galileo GPS system as well. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:52 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28810] Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk Amazon Sidewalk wants to operate in the Amateur 900 MHz band. Anyone see this one coming? I didn't (and I operate SSB/CW in this band). Rod, K0DAS ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: jon jones <n0jk@hotmail.com <mailto:n0jk@hotmail.com> > Date: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 4:57 PM Subject: Amazon Sidewalk To: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org <mailto:sford@arrl.org> >, Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com <mailto:rod.blocksome@gmail.com> > _____ Are you familiar with Amazon Sidewalk ? This item caught my eye as it mentioned the 900 MHz amateur radio band. -- N0JK At its <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-event-2019-echo-buds-echo-frames-alexa-everywhere-and-everything-announced/> Alexa event on Wednesday, <https://www.cnet.com/tags/amazon/> Amazon announced a new low-bandwidth network called Amazon Sidewalk that could extend the range at which you can control your devices beyond what <https://www.cnet.com/tags/bluetooth/> Bluetooth and <https://www.cnet.com/tags/wi-fi/> Wi-Fi currently allow. Amazon Sidewalk taps the 900MHz band of the radio spectrum -- typically used for amateur radio -- to extend the distance at which you can control your <https://www.cnet.com/smart-home/> smart home devices, Dave Limp, senior vice president of devices and services said during the event. <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-... <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> <https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question - CNET Internet Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question. The signal protocol will help you use smart gadgets outside your home. <http://www.cnet.com> www.cnet.com
Hello Robert - So far the only issue of which I am awarre that involved the Galileo system is that an Indianapolis ATV repeater had to move it's output frequency so that the Indianapolis Sheriff's Department asset management system would not receive interference. As it turns out the manufacturer of that system chose to use Galileo instead of GPS. We are after all, secondary users in that band and moving the output frequency of the ATV repeater seemed like a very simple accommodation. 73, Kermit W9XA On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 7:08:12 PM CDT, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote: Bound to happen more and more as available spectrum get rare. I think we have only seen the beginning. Remember, Part 18 ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) devices have priority, though the unlicensed stuff like wireless phone extensions and such may not interfere with our use. If Amazon opens up there, the noise level will come up substantially for weak signal work. Is this why Amazon paid ham radio’s internet address custodians millions to get our address blocks? My neighbor uses analog FM wireless 5.1 channel TV speakers on that band which are not happy (they shut down while I transmit with 20 watts over 100 feet from them), but that type of unlicensed use is not protected. I recall the utility companies make use of the band for remote reading utility meters as well. I operate on 902 -927 FM with 2 Motorola radios including 1 Spectra base station and a MTX-9000 and 2 Alinco DJ-G29 transceivers. Nice band for that use. Not much we can do to prevent this, I fear. And isn’t 1296 MHz is under siege from the Galileo GPS system as well. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:52 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28810] Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk Amazon Sidewalk wants to operate in the Amateur 900 MHz band. Anyone see this one coming? I didn't (and I operate SSB/CW in this band). Rod, K0DAS ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: jon jones <n0jk@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 4:57 PM Subject: Amazon Sidewalk To: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>, Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com> Are you familiar with Amazon Sidewalk ? This item caught my eye as it mentioned the 900 MHz amateur radio band. -- N0JK At its Alexa event on Wednesday, Amazon announced a new low-bandwidth network called Amazon Sidewalk that could extend the range at which you can control your devices beyond what Bluetooth and Wi-Fi currently allow. Amazon Sidewalk taps the 900MHz band of the radio spectrum -- typically used for amateur radio -- to extend the distance at which you can control your smart home devices, Dave Limp, senior vice president of devices and services said during the event. https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-... | | Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question - CNET Internet Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question. The signal protocol will help you use smart gadgets outside your home. www.cnet.com | _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
On 9/29/2019 6:18 PM, Kermit Carlson wrote:
1296 MHz is under siege from the Galileo GPS system
Here is where I saw the first reports on QRZ.com a short while ago. /*Threat to Amateur Radio 23cm band*/ A joint paper to be submitted to the CEPT CPG meeting in Ankara by France, Lithuania, Malta, Slovenia and The Netherlands _*attacks the continued use by Radio Amateurs of our 1240-1300 MHz band*_ This is the final CEPT CPG meeting in preparation for the ITU World Radiocommunication Conference 2019 (WRC-19) to be held in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, October 28 to November 22. *This conference will define the Agenda Items for WRC-23.* https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/threat-to-amateur-radio-23cm-band.6...
Kermit, Was the ATV problem a direct radiation issue, or a mixing issue. Or was it maybe up at 1.3 GHz? Galileo doesn’t operate in 902-928 (nor do GLONASS or GPS). There are several terrestrial location services in 902-928 however, to which hams are secondary: grandfathered AVM (automatic vehicle monitoring), but in the last two decades mainly multilateration and non-multilateration LMS (location monitoring service). 73, Dave K3ZJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Kermit Carlson via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Reply-To: Kermit Carlson <w9xa@yahoo.com> Date: Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 6:18 PM To: 'Rod Blocksome' <rod.blocksome@gmail.com>, 'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>, "Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> Subject: [arrl-odv:28813] Re: Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk Hello Robert - So far the only issue of which I am awarre that involved the Galileo system is that an Indianapolis ATV repeater had to move it's output frequency so that the Indianapolis Sheriff's Department asset management system would not receive interference. As it turns out the manufacturer of that system chose to use Galileo instead of GPS. We are after all, secondary users in that band and moving the output frequency of the ATV repeater seemed like a very simple accommodation. 73, Kermit W9XA On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 7:08:12 PM CDT, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote: Bound to happen more and more as available spectrum get rare. I think we have only seen the beginning. Remember, Part 18 ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) devices have priority, though the unlicensed stuff like wireless phone extensions and such may not interfere with our use. If Amazon opens up there, the noise level will come up substantially for weak signal work. Is this why Amazon paid ham radio’s internet address custodians millions to get our address blocks? My neighbor uses analog FM wireless 5.1 channel TV speakers on that band which are not happy (they shut down while I transmit with 20 watts over 100 feet from them), but that type of unlicensed use is not protected. I recall the utility companies make use of the band for remote reading utility meters as well. I operate on 902 -927 FM with 2 Motorola radios including 1 Spectra base station and a MTX-9000 and 2 Alinco DJ-G29 transceivers. Nice band for that use. Not much we can do to prevent this, I fear. And isn’t 1296 MHz is under siege from the Galileo GPS system as well. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:image001.png@01D576F8.720A1CD0] www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:52 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28810] Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk Amazon Sidewalk wants to operate in the Amateur 900 MHz band. Anyone see this one coming? I didn't (and I operate SSB/CW in this band). Rod, K0DAS ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: jon jones <n0jk@hotmail.com<mailto:n0jk@hotmail.com>> Date: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 4:57 PM Subject: Amazon Sidewalk To: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org<mailto:sford@arrl.org>>, Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com<mailto:rod.blocksome@gmail.com>> ________________________________ Are you familiar with Amazon Sidewalk ? This item caught my eye as it mentioned the 900 MHz amateur radio band. -- N0JK At its Alexa event<https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-event-2019-echo-buds-echo-frames-alexa-everywhere-and-everything-announced/> on Wednesday, Amazon<https://www.cnet.com/tags/amazon/> announced a new low-bandwidth network called Amazon Sidewalk that could extend the range at which you can control your devices beyond what Bluetooth<https://www.cnet.com/tags/bluetooth/> and Wi-Fi<https://www.cnet.com/tags/wi-fi/> currently allow. Amazon Sidewalk taps the 900MHz band of the radio spectrum -- typically used for amateur radio -- to extend the distance at which you can control your smart home<https://www.cnet.com/smart-home/> devices, Dave Limp, senior vice president of devices and services said during the event. https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-... [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question - CNET<https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-is-already-in-question/> Internet Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question. The signal protocol will help you use smart gadgets outside your home. www.cnet.com<http://www.cnet.com> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Hello David, The interference issue was on 1246 MHz and it was Glonass set ofsatellites, not Galileo - who would have thought that a Indianapolis agency wouldbought a system that used a Russian radio-location system ? The problem was direct and whenever the ATV repeater system would transmit the Coiunty's asset display would loose track of all equipped vehicles. That issue was mitigated immediately once the issue became apparent which was about 10 years ago. Hopefully we will be able to have continued access to the whole band with the understanding that we need to avoid certainfrequencies. With regards to 902, it was very nice when we first had access to 902-928 At first it was common to work weak signal on 903.1 but now most of us are at 902.1 to try to get away from the heavy ISM use area of the band. 73, Kermit W9XA On Sunday, September 29, 2019, 6:02:48 PM CDT, david davidsiddall-law. com <david@davidsiddall-law.com> wrote: Kermit, Was the ATV problem a direct radiation issue, or a mixing issue. Or was it maybe up at 1.3 GHz? Galileo doesn’t operate in 902-928 (nor do GLONASS or GPS). There are several terrestrial location services in 902-928 however, to which hams are secondary: grandfathered AVM (automatic vehicle monitoring), but in the last two decades mainly multilateration and non-multilateration LMS (location monitoring service). 73, Dave K3ZJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Kermit Carlson via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Reply-To: Kermit Carlson <w9xa@yahoo.com> Date: Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 6:18 PM To: 'Rod Blocksome' <rod.blocksome@gmail.com>, 'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>, "Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> Subject: [arrl-odv:28813] Re: Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk Hello Robert - So far the only issue of which I am awarre that involved the Galileo system is that an Indianapolis ATV repeater had to move it's output frequency so that the Indianapolis Sheriff's Department asset management system would not receive interference. As it turns out the manufacturer of that system chose to use Galileo instead of GPS. We are after all, secondary users in that band and moving the output frequency of the ATV repeater seemed like a very simple accommodation. 73, Kermit W9XA On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 7:08:12 PM CDT, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote: Bound to happen more and more as available spectrum get rare. I think we have only seen the beginning. Remember, Part 18 ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) devices have priority, though the unlicensed stuff like wireless phone extensions and such may not interfere with our use. If Amazon opens up there, the noise level will come up substantially for weak signal work. Is this why Amazon paid ham radio’s internet address custodians millions to get our address blocks? My neighbor uses analog FM wireless 5.1 channel TV speakers on that band which are not happy (they shut down while I transmit with 20 watts over 100 feet from them), but that type of unlicensed use is not protected. I recall the utility companies make use of the band for remote reading utility meters as well. I operate on 902 -927 FM with 2 Motorola radios including 1 Spectra base station and a MTX-9000 and 2 Alinco DJ-G29 transceivers. Nice band for that use. Not much we can do to prevent this, I fear. And isn’t 1296 MHz is under siege from the Galileo GPS system as well. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odvOn Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:52 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28810] Fwd: Amazon Sidewalk Amazon Sidewalk wants to operate in the Amateur 900 MHz band. Anyone see this one coming? I didn't (and I operate SSB/CW in this band). Rod, K0DAS ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: jon jones <n0jk@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 4:57 PM Subject: Amazon Sidewalk To: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>, Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com> Are you familiar with Amazon Sidewalk ? This item caught my eye as it mentioned the 900 MHz amateur radio band. -- N0JK At its Alexa event on Wednesday, Amazon announced a new low-bandwidth network called Amazon Sidewalk that could extend the range at which you can control your devices beyond whatBluetooth and Wi-Fi currently allow. Amazon Sidewalk taps the 900MHz band of the radio spectrum -- typically used for amateur radio -- to extend the distance at which you can control your smart home devices, Dave Limp, senior vice president of devices and services said during the event. https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-sidewalk-extends-your-network-but-security-... | | Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question - CNET Internet Amazon Sidewalk extends your network range, but security is already in question. The signal protocol will help you use smart gadgets outside your home. www.cnet.com | _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (5)
-
Bob Famiglio K3RF -
Bob Famiglio, K3RF
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david davidsiddall-law.com -
Kermit Carlson -
Rod Blocksome