[arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives
While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive? Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled? Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues? I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
Hi, Greg. Since the League will neither require nor promote opting out of receiving a printed QST, one's collection and access to prior issues received during his or her tenure as a member will remain unaffected. 73, Marty N6VI ----- Original Message ----- From: K0GW To: arrl-odv Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 4:28 PM Subject: [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive? Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled? Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues? I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Marty, Yes, that is true right now. But I am thinking about the situation down the road, where it is forseeable that there is a larger interest in not receiving a printed journal. I will say frankly that 'neither requiring nor promoting opting out' of a printed QST doesn't sound like a stable long-term situation to me. We can also turn this around, and say that a positive policy on online archiving could be a benefit to our members, who would then no longer need to be concerned with preserving old issues, in whatever medium. In other words, I think we need to figure out a good archive policy no matter what we do about a printed version. I don't have the answer. 73, Greg, K0GW On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Marty Woll <n6vi@socal.rr.com> wrote:
** Hi, Greg.
Since the League will neither require nor promote opting out of receiving a printed QST, one's collection and access to prior issues received during his or her tenure as a member will remain unaffected.
73,
Marty N6VI
----- Original Message ----- *From:* K0GW <K0GW@arrl.net> *To:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2011 4:28 PM *Subject:* [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives
While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive?
Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled?
Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues?
I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
------------------------------
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Greg Widin, K0GW ARRL Dakota Division Director
I've heard members actually raise Greg's questions/issues. I think that many people would love a digital version that was theirs to keep, off-line as well as on-line. Or put another way, a digital copy that wasn't tethered to internet connectivity (many people STILL have a dialup connection and will continue to have that limitation for a long while.) I know that I really like the eBook concept but I refuse to buy anything that doesn't result in me being able to possess the content for an infinite time. Our CDs and DVDs that have the older QST, etc. are a good example of what works. If I have to print it out to be sure that I'll have access in the future, I actually consider that step backwards. Over the short term, rolling out a digital version is a good step forward, but only one step. If we don't address these longer term issues, we're missing the bigger part of the opportunity with our members, because they surely are going to be looking at these issues/lack of features. I recognize that we have IP control issues (unauthorized sharing) when the content can be made available for use off-line, but I think we need to have a sense of proportion over such issues/concerns. Loosing members is a big and expensive thing to have happen. Of course cost of acquisition of a new member is a whole separate issue I won't get into at all! ; ) Well, I have to sign this and head back into the PNW DX convention. 73, Grant On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 6:23 AM, G Widin <gpwidin@comcast.net> wrote:
Marty, Yes, that is true right now. But I am thinking about the situation down the road, where it is forseeable that there is a larger interest in not receiving a printed journal. I will say frankly that 'neither requiring nor promoting opting out' of a printed QST doesn't sound like a stable long-term situation to me.
We can also turn this around, and say that a positive policy on online archiving could be a benefit to our members, who would then no longer need to be concerned with preserving old issues, in whatever medium.
In other words, I think we need to figure out a good archive policy no matter what we do about a printed version. I don't have the answer. 73, Greg, K0GW
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Marty Woll <n6vi@socal.rr.com> wrote:
** Hi, Greg.
Since the League will neither require nor promote opting out of receiving a printed QST, one's collection and access to prior issues received during his or her tenure as a member will remain unaffected.
73,
Marty N6VI
----- Original Message ----- *From:* K0GW <K0GW@arrl.net> *To:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2011 4:28 PM *Subject:* [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives
While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive?
Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled?
Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues?
I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
------------------------------
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Greg Widin, K0GW ARRL Dakota Division Director
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- 73, Grant Hopper, KB7WSD Vice Director, Northwestern Division
Greg, excellent questions on the details of user access to archives. The Digital QST report which staff submitted to A&F and the Board in July provides for expanded QST archives which will include the most current issues. The plan provides for two separate archives: the legacy archive and the new archive of digital editions. Your questions concerning access to the archives of the digital QST editions need to be carefully considered before finalizing a vendor agreement. I notice on Nxtbook's web site that they tout the feature of "Save for offline viewing" with the benefit of "Read at your convenience." This feature could address several of your archive questions. Staff may want to explore the options available to allow members to download and save content offline, provided that there are digital rights management features that prevent or limit sharing. Staff recommended no content sharing to start. But we do need to be sensitive to insuring that members who opt out of the print edition of QST will have continued access to archives of all issues. Cliff K0CA From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of K0GW Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:28 PM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive? Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled? Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues? I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
I was able to save the Nxtbook sample digital September 2010 QST to my desktop. Just click on the following link to the QST Digital Edition Demo: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/arrl/qst_201009/#/0 Then click on the "Save to Your Desktop" icon in the upper right of the Nxtbook menu bar. It saved the entire QST monthly edition to my desktop - 43.8 MB. The file is an Adobe Air file. It will prompt you to install the free Adobe Air application, which then opens the digital QST. As far as I can tell from a quick check, all the features of the Internet Web browser edition are identical, including access by contents and pages, It took just a minute or two to save it to my computer. Dial-up users would have longer download times, but once downloaded to the member's computer, access should be very quick. Staff will need to tell us if this "Save to Desktop" feature will be available, and what digital rights management protections can be included to prevent sharing and copyright protections. Cliff K0CA From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of K0GW Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:28 PM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive? Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled? Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues? I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
Cliff, back in January Board members rightly expressed concerns about intellectual property rights protection. Staff's recommendations at this point respond to those concerns. My own view is that allowing members to save the copy is appropriate. Keeping archives open to former members in my view is not appropriate. That would represent an ongoing obligation to someone who is no longer paying for it. The Region 1 Conference is off to a good start. This is my first trip to South Africa and I was a bit surprised to discover that the temperatures (it being winter here) are about what I would expect in New England in October: 40s at night and high 60s during the day. Fortunately, I was forewarned and brought a jacket. 73, Dave K1ZZ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org on behalf of Cliff Ahrens Sent: Sun 8/14/2011 3:06 AM To: 'K0GW'; arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20154] Re: Electronic QST--unanswered questions aboutarchives I was able to save the Nxtbook sample digital September 2010 QST to my desktop. Just click on the following link to the QST Digital Edition Demo: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/arrl/qst_201009/#/0 Then click on the "Save to Your Desktop" icon in the upper right of the Nxtbook menu bar. It saved the entire QST monthly edition to my desktop - 43.8 MB. The file is an Adobe Air file. It will prompt you to install the free Adobe Air application, which then opens the digital QST. As far as I can tell from a quick check, all the features of the Internet Web browser edition are identical, including access by contents and pages, It took just a minute or two to save it to my computer. Dial-up users would have longer download times, but once downloaded to the member's computer, access should be very quick. Staff will need to tell us if this "Save to Desktop" feature will be available, and what digital rights management protections can be included to prevent sharing and copyright protections. Cliff K0CA From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of K0GW Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:28 PM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive? Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled? Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues? I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
Dave, I share the concerns raised by A&F and Board members about intellectual property and digital rights management. And I think staff responded appropriately. It's best to start with more restrictive DRM measures and move to more open access. It will be helpful to know what DRM methods our vendor has available (such as username and password, or restrictions or limits on copying files) and then resolve policy questions on how best to strike a balance between fair use by our members and protection from file-sharing with non-members. My personal view is the same as yours. If we can protect against unreasonable file-sharing, I would like to allow members to save a copy of their QST magazine locally, which appears to be easily accomplished in Nxtbook as I described last night. And archive access should be limited to current, not former, members (except to the extent they downloaded and saved copies during their membership terms). I'm glad all is well at the Region 1 Conference. The heat wave has moderated greatly from the triple digit temps we had during much of July and early August. But those cool Fall temperatures you describe sound wonderful. 73, Cliff K0CA From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 2:41 AM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20155] Re: Electronic QST--unanswered questions aboutarchives Cliff, back in January Board members rightly expressed concerns about intellectual property rights protection. Staff's recommendations at this point respond to those concerns. My own view is that allowing members to save the copy is appropriate. Keeping archives open to former members in my view is not appropriate. That would represent an ongoing obligation to someone who is no longer paying for it. The Region 1 Conference is off to a good start. This is my first trip to South Africa and I was a bit surprised to discover that the temperatures (it being winter here) are about what I would expect in New England in October: 40s at night and high 60s during the day. Fortunately, I was forewarned and brought a jacket. 73, Dave K1ZZ _____ From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org on behalf of Cliff Ahrens Sent: Sun 8/14/2011 3:06 AM To: 'K0GW'; arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20154] Re: Electronic QST--unanswered questions aboutarchives I was able to save the Nxtbook sample digital September 2010 QST to my desktop. Just click on the following link to the QST Digital Edition Demo: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/arrl/qst_201009/#/0 Then click on the "Save to Your Desktop" icon in the upper right of the Nxtbook menu bar. It saved the entire QST monthly edition to my desktop - 43.8 MB. The file is an Adobe Air file. It will prompt you to install the free Adobe Air application, which then opens the digital QST. As far as I can tell from a quick check, all the features of the Internet Web browser edition are identical, including access by contents and pages, It took just a minute or two to save it to my computer. Dial-up users would have longer download times, but once downloaded to the member's computer, access should be very quick. Staff will need to tell us if this "Save to Desktop" feature will be available, and what digital rights management protections can be included to prevent sharing and copyright protections. Cliff K0CA From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of K0GW Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:28 PM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive? Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled? Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues? I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW
I think we're on the right track. I agree with Dave's comment that current members should be able to save copies, but not-current-members should not have the ability to download and save (and in my opinion this should include people not being able to download copies of issues received/published while they are members, if they are past their expiration (pretty much like Cliff mentioned.) While some might ask "why this distinction?" I think the burden of archiving is sufficient that fewer numbers of folks will take the time to download and archive with the idea of not renewing. The cost of messing versus the $40 to 50 that membership might cost in the future certainly will mitigate towards people remaining members in order to continue to have access (as well as receive current copies.) While I do think the ability to read off-line is important, right now I don't see the ability to save a local copy as critical in comparison to the importance of doing the digital version very well. This fits with Cliff's thoughts that we can start with more restrictive DRM, and move to a less restrictive model as technology and member feedback helps us to figure out where the sweet spot is. I would be bothered by the idea of a digital copy that 'expires' after a certain date. If we try to control things too tightly, we'll inspire people to crack the security and share as widely as possible. That's a bell we can't unring and we'll spend a lot of money and effort trying to stay ahead of the crackers. If we merely make it a 'PITA' people will remain members (especially if we continue to find ways to add membership value and do a good job of telling members and potential members about these values.) 73, Grant, KB7WSD On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Cliff Ahrens <cliff.ahrens@gmail.com>wrote:
Dave, I share the concerns raised by A&F and Board members about intellectual property and digital rights management. And I think staff responded appropriately. It’s best to start with more restrictive DRM measures and move to more open access. It will be helpful to know what DRM methods our vendor has available (such as username and password, or restrictions or limits on copying files) and then resolve policy questions on how best to strike a balance between fair use by our members and protection from file-sharing with non-members.****
** **
My personal view is the same as yours. If we can protect against unreasonable file-sharing, I would like to allow members to save a copy of their QST magazine locally, which appears to be easily accomplished in Nxtbook as I described last night. And archive access should be limited to current, not former, members (except to the extent they downloaded and saved copies during their membership terms).****
** **
I’m glad all is well at the Region 1 Conference. The heat wave has moderated greatly from the triple digit temps we had during much of July and early August. But those cool Fall temperatures you describe sound wonderful. ****
** **
73, Cliff K0CA****
** **
*From:* arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] *On Behalf Of *Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 2:41 AM *To:* arrl-odv *Subject:* [arrl-odv:20155] Re: Electronic QST--unanswered questions aboutarchives****
** **
Cliff, back in January Board members rightly expressed concerns about intellectual property rights protection. Staff's recommendations at this point respond to those concerns.****
****
My own view is that allowing members to save the copy is appropriate. Keeping archives open to former members in my view is not appropriate. That would represent an ongoing obligation to someone who is no longer paying for it.****
****
The Region 1 Conference is off to a good start. This is my first trip to South Africa and I was a bit surprised to discover that the temperatures (it being winter here) are about what I would expect in New England in October: 40s at night and high 60s during the day. Fortunately, I was forewarned and brought a jacket.****
****
73,****
Dave K1ZZ****
** ** ------------------------------
*From:* arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org on behalf of Cliff Ahrens *Sent:* Sun 8/14/2011 3:06 AM *To:* 'K0GW'; arrl-odv *Subject:* [arrl-odv:20154] Re: Electronic QST--unanswered questions aboutarchives****
I was able to save the Nxtbook sample digital September 2010 QST to my desktop. Just click on the following link to the QST Digital Edition Demo: ****
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/arrl/qst_201009/#/0****
****
Then click on the “Save to Your Desktop” icon in the upper right of the Nxtbook menu bar. It saved the entire QST monthly edition to my desktop – 43.8 MB. The file is an Adobe Air file. It will prompt you to install the free Adobe Air application, which then opens the digital QST. As far as I can tell from a quick check, all the features of the Internet Web browser edition are identical, including access by contents and pages, It took just a minute or two to save it to my computer. Dial-up users would have longer download times, but once downloaded to the member’s computer, access should be very quick.****
****
Staff will need to tell us if this “Save to Desktop” feature will be available, and what digital rights management protections can be included to prevent sharing and copyright protections.****
****
Cliff K0CA****
****
****
*From:* arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] *On Behalf Of *K0GW *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2011 6:28 PM *To:* arrl-odv *Subject:* [arrl-odv:20149] Electronic QST--unanswered questions about archives****
****
While we've discussed many facets of an electronic QST, I think there is one group of questions still unanswered--what will be a user's access to the archive?
Many members have and are proud of their collection of past QST issues. For example, at one point, I had every issue from 1963 to the present (until I started getting the CD-ROMs). Leaving for the moment the difference in media, will members be able to "keep" their copies in the same way? From what's been discussed so far, it appears that a member will be able to view/use the issue, but not save a digital copy. This would mean that a user would need to be online continuously to read an issue. Would we preclude downloading to read elsewhere offline? Would printing be disabled?
Would only current members be able to read archive years, while a lapsed member would be unable to review an issue, even if it was published during the time he/she was a member? If I have a current subscription/membership, does that mean I have access to all the past issues?
I am not objecting to electronic delivery, just wondering how we should address the complicated access questions that can be raised. Any suggestions? 73, Greg, K0GW****
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- 73, Grant Hopper, KB7WSD Vice Director, Northwestern Division
participants (6)
-
Cliff Ahrens -
G Widin -
Grant Hopper -
K0GW -
Marty Woll -
Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ