[arrl-odv:29359] improvement to VE program
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors, As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us. Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case. 73, Howard, WB2ITX -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
This is a great idea paper. I've marked up a copy with ideas. The Laurel group has implemented much of this. Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free. Tough competition. 73, Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL *“The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf* On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) < wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
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I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there. But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this. 1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access. 2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well. 73, Ria N2RJ On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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Oh, and come to think of it, with California recently passing its privacy law, #2 may also apply. :) Ria On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 20:03, rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there.
But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this.
1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access.
2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well.
73, Ria N2RJ
On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Dear ODV Members: I just reviewed how many ODV members are Volunteer Examiners (VEs) and I was surprised that only about 1/3 have participated in at least one VE examination session. (Source: http://www.arrl.org/ve-session-counts) Despite its 75% market share, ARRL's VE process is antiquated. Here in North Carolina, many ARRL VEs have reciprocal privileges with the W4VEC, W5YI and WCARS Volunteer Examination Coordinators (VECs), and opt to use those VECs over ARRL because of swift electronic processing. While security concerns may be valid, many first time candidates are eager to get on the air. We have had experience with candidates who have failed a test at an ARRL VE session, then the next day go to a VE session administered by a different VEC, and have their callsigns assigned before those who took their exams at the ARRL VE session. This is an embarrassment for the organization considered to be the industry leader. Those of us who took our exams at the FCC office then waited two months for our tickets to arrive in the mail should not be preaching patience - it's a different world, and our VEC competitors are offering 24-48 hour first time call sign assignment. Director Jairam is correct that internet access should be mandatory at ARRL VE sessions to access FRN records, as well as a procedure or mechanism to copy photo ID for applicants without a license. Former CEO Tom Gallagher proposed the idea to enter into an arrangement with commercial testing centers, such as Sylvan Learning or Pearson, to provide exams on demand without the necessity of a VE team. Perhaps it's time to resurrect that idea. By the way, kudos to the ODV member with the most number of VE test sessions in which he's participated - Delta Division Director David Norris, K5UZ, with 86. 73 de Bill Morine, N2COP Vice Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia www.arrl-roanoke.org Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division ARRL – The National Association for Amateur Radio™ -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03 PM To: Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: Fusaro, Norm W3IZ <w3iz@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29362] Re: improvement to VE program I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there. But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this. 1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access. 2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well. 73, Ria N2RJ On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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I agree with Bill, N2COP on the ARRL VE program. I do not use the ARRL VE testing because it is a paper mill and slow. I have been the VE Coordination person for W5YI testing for over 10 years and use W5YI-VEC regularly. I can give a test, finish the paperwork, email it to W5YI-VEC the same day and then get a new call to a successful candidate in 3 days. In most cases, I call the successful candidate, give them their new call and encourage them to log into the FCC database if they want to see the official copy. New Hams are excited to get their call that quick and be able to get on the air. Talk about a great "ELMER" opportunity to get a new club member plus ask them to join ARRL. Lynn Nelson - W0ND Vice Director- Dakota Division ----- Original Message ----- From: n2cop@ec.rr.com To: rjairam@gmail.com, "Mickey Baker" <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: "Norm W3IZ' 'Fusaro" <w3iz@arrl.org>, "arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:23:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [arrl-odv:29364] Re: improvement to VE program Dear ODV Members: I just reviewed how many ODV members are Volunteer Examiners (VEs) and I was surprised that only about 1/3 have participated in at least one VE examination session. (Source: http://www.arrl.org/ve-session-counts) Despite its 75% market share, ARRL's VE process is antiquated. Here in North Carolina, many ARRL VEs have reciprocal privileges with the W4VEC, W5YI and WCARS Volunteer Examination Coordinators (VECs), and opt to use those VECs over ARRL because of swift electronic processing. While security concerns may be valid, many first time candidates are eager to get on the air. We have had experience with candidates who have failed a test at an ARRL VE session, then the next day go to a VE session administered by a different VEC, and have their callsigns assigned before those who took their exams at the ARRL VE session. This is an embarrassment for the organization considered to be the industry leader. Those of us who took our exams at the FCC office then waited two months for our tickets to arrive in the mail should not be preaching patience - it's a different world, and our VEC competitors are offering 24-48 hour first time call sign assignment. Director Jairam is correct that internet access should be mandatory at ARRL VE sessions to access FRN records, as well as a procedure or mechanism to copy photo ID for applicants without a license. Former CEO Tom Gallagher proposed the idea to enter into an arrangement with commercial testing centers, such as Sylvan Learning or Pearson, to provide exams on demand without the necessity of a VE team. Perhaps it's time to resurrect that idea. By the way, kudos to the ODV member with the most number of VE test sessions in which he's participated - Delta Division Director David Norris, K5UZ, with 86. 73 de Bill Morine, N2COP Vice Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia www.arrl-roanoke.org Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division ARRL – The National Association for Amateur Radio™ -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03 PM To: Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: Fusaro, Norm W3IZ <w3iz@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29362] Re: improvement to VE program I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there. But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this. 1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access. 2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well. 73, Ria N2RJ On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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I also think we need to seriously consider what candidates get for the $15 fee. While we should not stop charging the fee (unless we secure an alternative funding source) we should be able to offer something as a value add. Maybe something that doesn’t cost us much such as a course in our (future) online learning system or something else that is tangible (that will cost us but will bring in potential future growth) such as a discount on the first year’s membership. It’s easy to say that LARC-VEC charges nothing because they are all-volunteer but they are rapidly expanding. I am accredited with ARRL and LARC and the experience with LARC is much more modern and it costs the candidate nothing. But back to the basic point - 2 weeks to get results is not what people expect today. It took 6 months in 1997 when I got licensed (because tests had to be graded in London, UK) and 2 weeks in 2001 when I got licensed in the USA but that was 23/19 years ago. But I definitely applaud the concept and effort and I’m hoping this can be implemented quickly. Ria N2RJ On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 8:22 AM <w0nd@srt.com> wrote:
I agree with Bill, N2COP on the ARRL VE program. I do not use the ARRL VE testing because it is a paper mill and slow. I have been the VE Coordination person for W5YI testing for over 10 years and use W5YI-VEC regularly. I can give a test, finish the paperwork, email it to W5YI-VEC the same day and then get a new call to a successful candidate in 3 days. In most cases, I call the successful candidate, give them their new call and encourage them to log into the FCC database if they want to see the official copy. New Hams are excited to get their call that quick and be able to get on the air. Talk about a great "ELMER" opportunity to get a new club member plus ask them to join ARRL.
Lynn Nelson - W0ND Vice Director- Dakota Division
----- Original Message ----- From: n2cop@ec.rr.com To: rjairam@gmail.com, "Mickey Baker" <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: "Norm W3IZ' 'Fusaro" <w3iz@arrl.org>, "arrl-odv" < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:23:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [arrl-odv:29364] Re: improvement to VE program
Dear ODV Members:
I just reviewed how many ODV members are Volunteer Examiners (VEs) and I was surprised that only about 1/3 have participated in at least one VE examination session. (Source: http://www.arrl.org/ve-session-counts) Despite its 75% market share, ARRL's VE process is antiquated. Here in North Carolina, many ARRL VEs have reciprocal privileges with the W4VEC, W5YI and WCARS Volunteer Examination Coordinators (VECs), and opt to use those VECs over ARRL because of swift electronic processing. While security concerns may be valid, many first time candidates are eager to get on the air. We have had experience with candidates who have failed a test at an ARRL VE session, then the next day go to a VE session administered by a different VEC, and have their callsigns assigned before those who took their exams at the ARRL VE session. This is an embarrassment for the organization considered to be the industry leader.
Those of us who took our exams at the FCC office then waited two months for our tickets to arrive in the mail should not be preaching patience - it's a different world, and our VEC competitors are offering 24-48 hour first time call sign assignment. Director Jairam is correct that internet access should be mandatory at ARRL VE sessions to access FRN records, as well as a procedure or mechanism to copy photo ID for applicants without a license. Former CEO Tom Gallagher proposed the idea to enter into an arrangement with commercial testing centers, such as Sylvan Learning or Pearson, to provide exams on demand without the necessity of a VE team. Perhaps it's time to resurrect that idea.
By the way, kudos to the ODV member with the most number of VE test sessions in which he's participated - Delta Division Director David Norris, K5UZ, with 86.
73 de Bill Morine, N2COP Vice Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia www.arrl-roanoke.org Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division ARRL – The National Association for Amateur Radio™
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03 PM To: Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: Fusaro, Norm W3IZ <w3iz@arrl.org>; arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29362] Re: improvement to VE program
I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there.
But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this.
1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access.
2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well.
73, Ria N2RJ
On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams
are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <
wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results
to the FCC.
We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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I’ve been pushing for this for years, ever since I came on the David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 12, 2020, at 8:39 AM, "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
I also think we need to seriously consider what candidates get for the $15 fee. While we should not stop charging the fee (unless we secure an alternative funding source) we should be able to offer something as a value add.
Maybe something that doesn’t cost us much such as a course in our (future) online learning system or something else that is tangible (that will cost us but will bring in potential future growth) such as a discount on the first year’s membership.
It’s easy to say that LARC-VEC charges nothing because they are all-volunteer but they are rapidly expanding. I am accredited with ARRL and LARC and the experience with LARC is much more modern and it costs the candidate nothing.
But back to the basic point - 2 weeks to get results is not what people expect today. It took 6 months in 1997 when I got licensed (because tests had to be graded in London, UK) and 2 weeks in 2001 when I got licensed in the USA but that was 23/19 years ago.
But I definitely applaud the concept and effort and I’m hoping this can be implemented quickly.
Ria N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 8:22 AM <w0nd@srt.com> wrote: I agree with Bill, N2COP on the ARRL VE program. I do not use the ARRL VE testing because it is a paper mill and slow. I have been the VE Coordination person for W5YI testing for over 10 years and use W5YI-VEC regularly. I can give a test, finish the paperwork, email it to W5YI-VEC the same day and then get a new call to a successful candidate in 3 days. In most cases, I call the successful candidate, give them their new call and encourage them to log into the FCC database if they want to see the official copy. New Hams are excited to get their call that quick and be able to get on the air. Talk about a great "ELMER" opportunity to get a new club member plus ask them to join ARRL.
Lynn Nelson - W0ND Vice Director- Dakota Division
----- Original Message ----- From: n2cop@ec.rr.com To: rjairam@gmail.com, "Mickey Baker" <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: "Norm W3IZ' 'Fusaro" <w3iz@arrl.org>, "arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:23:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [arrl-odv:29364] Re: improvement to VE program
Dear ODV Members:
I just reviewed how many ODV members are Volunteer Examiners (VEs) and I was surprised that only about 1/3 have participated in at least one VE examination session. (Source: http://www.arrl.org/ve-session-counts) Despite its 75% market share, ARRL's VE process is antiquated. Here in North Carolina, many ARRL VEs have reciprocal privileges with the W4VEC, W5YI and WCARS Volunteer Examination Coordinators (VECs), and opt to use those VECs over ARRL because of swift electronic processing. While security concerns may be valid, many first time candidates are eager to get on the air. We have had experience with candidates who have failed a test at an ARRL VE session, then the next day go to a VE session administered by a different VEC, and have their callsigns assigned before those who took their exams at the ARRL VE session. This is an embarrassment for the organization considered to be the industry leader.
Those of us who took our exams at the FCC office then waited two months for our tickets to arrive in the mail should not be preaching patience - it's a different world, and our VEC competitors are offering 24-48 hour first time call sign assignment. Director Jairam is correct that internet access should be mandatory at ARRL VE sessions to access FRN records, as well as a procedure or mechanism to copy photo ID for applicants without a license. Former CEO Tom Gallagher proposed the idea to enter into an arrangement with commercial testing centers, such as Sylvan Learning or Pearson, to provide exams on demand without the necessity of a VE team. Perhaps it's time to resurrect that idea.
By the way, kudos to the ODV member with the most number of VE test sessions in which he's participated - Delta Division Director David Norris, K5UZ, with 86.
73 de Bill Morine, N2COP Vice Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia www.arrl-roanoke.org Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division ARRL – The National Association for Amateur Radio™
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03 PM To: Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: Fusaro, Norm W3IZ <w3iz@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29362] Re: improvement to VE program
I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there.
But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this.
1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access.
2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well.
73, Ria N2RJ
On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
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Damned spotty cell service since the storms rolled through yesterday - sorry for the misfire. I’ve been pushing for this ever since I came on the board. Three or four years ago we finally convinced our VEC to work up a trial program for electronic session filing. Maria had a pilot project started with selected VE teams, and I think it may have proven successful. However, I’m not sure what happened with that and may have been scuttled when Gallagher put forth the idea of farming it all out to an independent contractor and doing away with the VEC. We should speak with Staff as to what ever happened to this pilot program. We may actually have the basic mechanisms in hand. 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 12, 2020, at 8:39 AM, "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
I also think we need to seriously consider what candidates get for the $15 fee. While we should not stop charging the fee (unless we secure an alternative funding source) we should be able to offer something as a value add.
Maybe something that doesn’t cost us much such as a course in our (future) online learning system or something else that is tangible (that will cost us but will bring in potential future growth) such as a discount on the first year’s membership.
It’s easy to say that LARC-VEC charges nothing because they are all-volunteer but they are rapidly expanding. I am accredited with ARRL and LARC and the experience with LARC is much more modern and it costs the candidate nothing.
But back to the basic point - 2 weeks to get results is not what people expect today. It took 6 months in 1997 when I got licensed (because tests had to be graded in London, UK) and 2 weeks in 2001 when I got licensed in the USA but that was 23/19 years ago.
But I definitely applaud the concept and effort and I’m hoping this can be implemented quickly.
Ria N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 8:22 AM <w0nd@srt.com> wrote: I agree with Bill, N2COP on the ARRL VE program. I do not use the ARRL VE testing because it is a paper mill and slow. I have been the VE Coordination person for W5YI testing for over 10 years and use W5YI-VEC regularly. I can give a test, finish the paperwork, email it to W5YI-VEC the same day and then get a new call to a successful candidate in 3 days. In most cases, I call the successful candidate, give them their new call and encourage them to log into the FCC database if they want to see the official copy. New Hams are excited to get their call that quick and be able to get on the air. Talk about a great "ELMER" opportunity to get a new club member plus ask them to join ARRL.
Lynn Nelson - W0ND Vice Director- Dakota Division
----- Original Message ----- From: n2cop@ec.rr.com To: rjairam@gmail.com, "Mickey Baker" <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: "Norm W3IZ' 'Fusaro" <w3iz@arrl.org>, "arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:23:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [arrl-odv:29364] Re: improvement to VE program
Dear ODV Members:
I just reviewed how many ODV members are Volunteer Examiners (VEs) and I was surprised that only about 1/3 have participated in at least one VE examination session. (Source: http://www.arrl.org/ve-session-counts) Despite its 75% market share, ARRL's VE process is antiquated. Here in North Carolina, many ARRL VEs have reciprocal privileges with the W4VEC, W5YI and WCARS Volunteer Examination Coordinators (VECs), and opt to use those VECs over ARRL because of swift electronic processing. While security concerns may be valid, many first time candidates are eager to get on the air. We have had experience with candidates who have failed a test at an ARRL VE session, then the next day go to a VE session administered by a different VEC, and have their callsigns assigned before those who took their exams at the ARRL VE session. This is an embarrassment for the organization considered to be the industry leader.
Those of us who took our exams at the FCC office then waited two months for our tickets to arrive in the mail should not be preaching patience - it's a different world, and our VEC competitors are offering 24-48 hour first time call sign assignment. Director Jairam is correct that internet access should be mandatory at ARRL VE sessions to access FRN records, as well as a procedure or mechanism to copy photo ID for applicants without a license. Former CEO Tom Gallagher proposed the idea to enter into an arrangement with commercial testing centers, such as Sylvan Learning or Pearson, to provide exams on demand without the necessity of a VE team. Perhaps it's time to resurrect that idea.
By the way, kudos to the ODV member with the most number of VE test sessions in which he's participated - Delta Division Director David Norris, K5UZ, with 86.
73 de Bill Morine, N2COP Vice Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia www.arrl-roanoke.org Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division ARRL – The National Association for Amateur Radio™
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03 PM To: Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> Cc: Fusaro, Norm W3IZ <w3iz@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29362] Re: improvement to VE program
I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there.
But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this.
1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access.
2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well.
73, Ria N2RJ
On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. Let me answer some questions that have arisen. First, we did have (and still have) a pilot test program where completed exams are sent back electronically to ARRL VEC. There were some challenges, and we learned a few things in doing this. But the process was basically still a labor-intensive paper based process. I did consider Tom's discarded idea to outsource the VE program. In my mind, such a solution ignores our inherent advantage -- our volunteer base. Plus it would cost the examines more and give away an opportunity for ARRL to start engagement with future members at an early stage. The system we envision will be internet based. We need a system that costs less and provides better value for the VEs, candidates and ARRL. If we don't improve our "product" we will be put out of the VE business by others who are not afraid to innovate. We need to make this investment now! 73, Howard, WB2ITX On 1/12/2020 9:55 AM, David Norris via arrl-odv wrote: Damned spotty cell service since the storms rolled through yesterday - sorry for the misfire. I’ve been pushing for this ever since I came on the board. Three or four years ago we finally convinced our VEC to work up a trial program for electronic session filing. Maria had a pilot project started with selected VE teams, and I think it may have proven successful. However, I’m not sure what happened with that and may have been scuttled when Gallagher put forth the idea of farming it all out to an independent contractor and doing away with the VEC. We should speak with Staff as to what ever happened to this pilot program. We may actually have the basic mechanisms in hand. 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2020, at 8:39 AM, "rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>" <rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>> wrote: I also think we need to seriously consider what candidates get for the $15 fee. While we should not stop charging the fee (unless we secure an alternative funding source) we should be able to offer something as a value add. Maybe something that doesn’t cost us much such as a course in our (future) online learning system or something else that is tangible (that will cost us but will bring in potential future growth) such as a discount on the first year’s membership. It’s easy to say that LARC-VEC charges nothing because they are all-volunteer but they are rapidly expanding. I am accredited with ARRL and LARC and the experience with LARC is much more modern and it costs the candidate nothing. But back to the basic point - 2 weeks to get results is not what people expect today. It took 6 months in 1997 when I got licensed (because tests had to be graded in London, UK) and 2 weeks in 2001 when I got licensed in the USA but that was 23/19 years ago. But I definitely applaud the concept and effort and I’m hoping this can be implemented quickly. Ria N2RJ On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 8:22 AM <w0nd@srt.com<mailto:w0nd@srt.com>> wrote: I agree with Bill, N2COP on the ARRL VE program. I do not use the ARRL VE testing because it is a paper mill and slow. I have been the VE Coordination person for W5YI testing for over 10 years and use W5YI-VEC regularly. I can give a test, finish the paperwork, email it to W5YI-VEC the same day and then get a new call to a successful candidate in 3 days. In most cases, I call the successful candidate, give them their new call and encourage them to log into the FCC database if they want to see the official copy. New Hams are excited to get their call that quick and be able to get on the air. Talk about a great "ELMER" opportunity to get a new club member plus ask them to join ARRL. Lynn Nelson - W0ND Vice Director- Dakota Division ----- Original Message ----- From: n2cop@ec.rr.com<mailto:n2cop@ec.rr.com> To: rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>, "Mickey Baker" <fishflorida@gmail.com<mailto:fishflorida@gmail.com>> Cc: "Norm W3IZ' 'Fusaro" <w3iz@arrl.org<mailto:w3iz@arrl.org>>, "arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:23:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [arrl-odv:29364] Re: improvement to VE program Dear ODV Members: I just reviewed how many ODV members are Volunteer Examiners (VEs) and I was surprised that only about 1/3 have participated in at least one VE examination session. (Source: http://www.arrl.org/ve-session-counts) Despite its 75% market share, ARRL's VE process is antiquated. Here in North Carolina, many ARRL VEs have reciprocal privileges with the W4VEC, W5YI and WCARS Volunteer Examination Coordinators (VECs), and opt to use those VECs over ARRL because of swift electronic processing. While security concerns may be valid, many first time candidates are eager to get on the air. We have had experience with candidates who have failed a test at an ARRL VE session, then the next day go to a VE session administered by a different VEC, and have their callsigns assigned before those who took their exams at the ARRL VE session. This is an embarrassment for the organization considered to be the industry leader. Those of us who took our exams at the FCC office then waited two months for our tickets to arrive in the mail should not be preaching patience - it's a different world, and our VEC competitors are offering 24-48 hour first time call sign assignment. Director Jairam is correct that internet access should be mandatory at ARRL VE sessions to access FRN records, as well as a procedure or mechanism to copy photo ID for applicants without a license. Former CEO Tom Gallagher proposed the idea to enter into an arrangement with commercial testing centers, such as Sylvan Learning or Pearson, to provide exams on demand without the necessity of a VE team. Perhaps it's time to resurrect that idea. By the way, kudos to the ODV member with the most number of VE test sessions in which he's participated - Delta Division Director David Norris, K5UZ, with 86. 73 de Bill Morine, N2COP Vice Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia www.arrl-roanoke.org<http://www.arrl-roanoke.org> Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division ARRL – The National Association for Amateur Radio™ -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:03 PM To: Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com<mailto:fishflorida@gmail.com>> Cc: Fusaro, Norm W3IZ <w3iz@arrl.org<mailto:w3iz@arrl.org>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:29362] Re: improvement to VE program I sent a list of suggestions privately to Howard and plan to bring it up at HQ when I am there. But there are two I pointed out that must be there if we are doing this. 1. We need to require teams to have internet access. That can be sticky in some cases as I've attended hamfests without internet access. 2. Another thing we need to consider is how we handle personal data in accordance with regulations such as the GDPR. This won't matter for sessions in the USA, but since VE sessions can be conducted worldwide it will be necessary. Consider the required notices such as for cookies as well. 73, Ria N2RJ On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 19:31, Mickey Baker <fishflorida@gmail.com<mailto:fishflorida@gmail.com>> wrote:
This is a great idea paper.
I've marked up a copy with ideas.
The Laurel group has implemented much of this.
Feedback from some of their folks is that many of their testing teams are recalcitrant about leaving the "old ways" and they still have a lot of people doing the manual process. Their tactic has been to provide excellent back end support. Many of the electronic tests are processed and even new calls issued within 24 hours. And they do this for free.
Tough competition.
73,
Mickey Baker, N4MB Palm Beach Gardens, FL “The servant-leader is servant first… It begins with the natural feeling that one wants to serve, to serve first. Then conscious choice brings one to aspire to lead." Robert K. Greenleaf
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org<mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org>> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
As I have been reporting, we plan to move our VE program into the 21th century. Our view is that it will be electronic, from the applicant finding and registering for a test session, through showing up for the test, and submitting the exam back to ARRL and the results to the FCC. We want to eliminate delays, minimize chance for human error and duplication of work, and capture information on potential members early in their interaction with us.
Our current plan is out-source the software development. The first step in that is to get a solid use-case and requirements document developed. If you have time, we would appreciate your review and thoughts on the attached draft use case.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org>
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_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org>
participants (6)
-
David Norris -
Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) -
Mickey Baker -
n2cop＠ec.rr.com -
rjairam＠gmail.com -
w0nd＠srt.com