[arrl-odv:34730] Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns
ODV; I have had a member ask me the following: Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories? Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM? 73; Mike W7VO
"OF", perhaps ... -----Original Message----- From: Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 12:24 pm Subject: [arrl-odv:34730] Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns ODV; I have had a member ask me the following: Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories? Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM? 73; Mike W7VO
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To add to the mix, I've heard complaints about "Elmer." It's gender specific. The suggestion is to use "mentor." YL and OM made a lot of sense when ham radio was mostly spark, CW or MCW and sending letters took a lot of time. That is no long true. Maybe we just need to drop the terms and follow current common practice. I know this is an uncomfortable topic for many people. But it is a sensitive topic for younger people today. Thanks for bringing it up, Mike. 73, Art -- Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ ARRL Midwest Division Director Member, Executive Committee Member, Programs and Services Committee Member, ARRL Foundation Board ARRL - The National Association for Amateur Radio® On 4/10/2023 11:24 AM, Michael Ritz wrote:
ODV;
I have had a member ask me the following:
Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories?
Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM?
73; Mike W7VO
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While it will take some work and time to get people to change, we need to find a way to drive the change. The first place to start is with us. I started years ago to avoid using OM, YL and XYL. Years ago when Cindy and I married it just bugged me that because of marriage she is no longer a young lady. The more I thought about I realized it also wasn't appropriate to call a 14 year old an old man. So I've tried for years to avoid those terms. Now I see it is time to take it to the next level to educate others. Something else that bothered me is calling Cindy "my wife". While I know many people do this, I don't own her, we are partners in this union. So I try to refer to her by name. Which is what I try to do with YL, OM, XYL, refer to them by their name or call. Frankly for being someone that has a few years on them ( okay old) I find all these different pronouns confusing and hard to keep track. Much easier to remember their name and/or call. Plus people love to hear their name so it makes it easier. Bill AC0W ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Art Zygielbaum <k0aiz@arrl.org> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 12:04:12 PM To: Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:34732] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns To add to the mix, I've heard complaints about "Elmer." It's gender specific. The suggestion is to use "mentor." YL and OM made a lot of sense when ham radio was mostly spark, CW or MCW and sending letters took a lot of time. That is no long true. Maybe we just need to drop the terms and follow current common practice. I know this is an uncomfortable topic for many people. But it is a sensitive topic for younger people today. Thanks for bringing it up, Mike. 73, Art -- Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ ARRL Midwest Division Director Member, Executive Committee Member, Programs and Services Committee Member, ARRL Foundation Board ARRL - The National Association for Amateur Radio® On 4/10/2023 11:24 AM, Michael Ritz wrote: ODV; I have had a member ask me the following: Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories? Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM? 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
The notion of a ham radio specific moniker like these is deeply ingrained and isn't going to go away any time soon. We might do better to "go with the flow" by inventing a new one. Just as an example of what might be done, how about "FH" for "fellow ham" MikeK1TWF -----Original Message----- From: Lippert, Vernon "Bill", AC0W (Dir, DK) <ac0w@arrl.org> To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 1:59 am Subject: [arrl-odv:34738] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns While it will take some work and time to get people to change, we need to find a way to drive the change. The first place to start is with us. I started years ago to avoid using OM, YL and XYL. Years ago when Cindy and I married it just bugged me that because of marriage she is no longer a young lady. The more I thought about I realized it also wasn't appropriate to call a 14 year old an old man. So I've tried for years to avoid those terms. Now I see it is time to take it to the next level to educate others. Something else that bothered me is calling Cindy "my wife". While I know many people do this, I don't own her, we are partners in this union. So I try to refer to her by name. Which is what I try to do with YL, OM, XYL, refer to them by their name or call. Frankly for being someone that has a few years on them ( okay old) I find all these different pronouns confusing and hard to keep track. Much easier to remember their name and/or call. Plus people love to hear their name so it makes it easier. BillAC0W From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Art Zygielbaum <k0aiz@arrl.org> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 12:04:12 PM To: Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:34732] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns To add to the mix, I've heard complaints about "Elmer." It's gender specific. The suggestion is to use "mentor." YL and OM made a lot of sense when ham radio was mostly spark, CW or MCW and sending letters took a lot of time. That is no long true. Maybe we just need to drop the terms and follow current common practice.I know this is an uncomfortable topic for many people. But it is a sensitive topic for younger people today.Thanks for bringing it up, Mike.73, Art -- Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ ARRL Midwest Division Director Member, Executive Committee Member, Programs and Services Committee Member, ARRL Foundation Board ARRL - The National Association for Amateur Radio®On 4/10/2023 11:24 AM, Michael Ritz wrote: ODV; I have had a member ask me the following: Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories? Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM? 73; MikeW7VO
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
All,, Relative to this particular discussion, the ARRL might touch base with the YLRL (Young Ladies Radio League) and ask their position on the topic. A quick review of their website, ylrl.net<http://ylrl.net> does not refer to any other terminology than “YL”. for your consideration…… 73, Dave, K2DP Dave Propper, K2DP Member, ARRL Programs and Services Committee Board Liaison, ARRL RF Safety Committee Chair, ARRL Historical Committee ARRL Midwest Division Vice Director 314-225-5167 (mobile) k2dp@arrl.org<mailto:k2dp@arrl.org> On Apr 11, 2023, at 5:05 AM, Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> wrote: The notion of a ham radio specific moniker like these is deeply ingrained and isn't going to go away any time soon. We might do better to "go with the flow" by inventing a new one. Just as an example of what might be done, how about "FH" for "fellow ham" Mike K1TWF -----Original Message----- From: Lippert, Vernon "Bill", AC0W (Dir, DK) <ac0w@arrl.org<mailto:ac0w@arrl.org>> To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Sent: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 1:59 am Subject: [arrl-odv:34738] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns While it will take some work and time to get people to change, we need to find a way to drive the change. The first place to start is with us. I started years ago to avoid using OM, YL and XYL. Years ago when Cindy and I married it just bugged me that because of marriage she is no longer a young lady. The more I thought about I realized it also wasn't appropriate to call a 14 year old an old man. So I've tried for years to avoid those terms. Now I see it is time to take it to the next level to educate others. Something else that bothered me is calling Cindy "my wife". While I know many people do this, I don't own her, we are partners in this union. So I try to refer to her by name. Which is what I try to do with YL, OM, XYL, refer to them by their name or call. Frankly for being someone that has a few years on them ( okay old) I find all these different pronouns confusing and hard to keep track. Much easier to remember their name and/or call. Plus people love to hear their name so it makes it easier. Bill AC0W ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Art Zygielbaum <k0aiz@arrl.org<mailto:k0aiz@arrl.org>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 12:04:12 PM To: Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:34732] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns To add to the mix, I've heard complaints about "Elmer." It's gender specific. The suggestion is to use "mentor." YL and OM made a lot of sense when ham radio was mostly spark, CW or MCW and sending letters took a lot of time. That is no long true. Maybe we just need to drop the terms and follow current common practice. I know this is an uncomfortable topic for many people. But it is a sensitive topic for younger people today. Thanks for bringing it up, Mike. 73, Art -- Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ ARRL Midwest Division Director Member, Executive Committee Member, Programs and Services Committee Member, ARRL Foundation Board ARRL - The National Association for Amateur Radio® On 4/10/2023 11:24 AM, Michael Ritz wrote: ODV; I have had a member ask me the following: Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories? Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM? 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
They do not use it. At least several decades ago the term XYL was dropped or at least discouraged by YLRL. We rehash the argument that has been raised on and off for some time regarding XYL v. YL. I never use XYL to refer to my spouse, N3SKW (licensed almost 30 years ago and before we were married) if I want to avoid that look – you know. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 Serving NNY, WNY, WPA, EPA, SNJ, DE and MD/DC sections www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.qrz.com/db/K3RF> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Propper, David, K2DP (VD, MW) Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 1:06 PM To: vze18vwgu@verizon.net Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:34740] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns All,, Relative to this particular discussion, the ARRL might touch base with the YLRL (Young Ladies Radio League) and ask their position on the topic. A quick review of their website, ylrl.net <http://ylrl.net> does not refer to any other terminology than “YL”. for your consideration…… 73, Dave, K2DP Dave Propper, K2DP Member, ARRL Programs and Services Committee Board Liaison, ARRL RF Safety Committee Chair, ARRL Historical Committee ARRL Midwest Division Vice Director 314-225-5167 (mobile) k2dp@arrl.org <mailto:k2dp@arrl.org> On Apr 11, 2023, at 5:05 AM, Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > wrote: The notion of a ham radio specific moniker like these is deeply ingrained and isn't going to go away any time soon. We might do better to "go with the flow" by inventing a new one. Just as an example of what might be done, how about "FH" for "fellow ham" Mike K1TWF -----Original Message----- From: Lippert, Vernon "Bill", AC0W (Dir, DK) <ac0w@arrl.org <mailto:ac0w@arrl.org> > To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Sent: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 1:59 am Subject: [arrl-odv:34738] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns While it will take some work and time to get people to change, we need to find a way to drive the change. The first place to start is with us. I started years ago to avoid using OM, YL and XYL. Years ago when Cindy and I married it just bugged me that because of marriage she is no longer a young lady. The more I thought about I realized it also wasn't appropriate to call a 14 year old an old man. So I've tried for years to avoid those terms. Now I see it is time to take it to the next level to educate others. Something else that bothered me is calling Cindy "my wife". While I know many people do this, I don't own her, we are partners in this union. So I try to refer to her by name. Which is what I try to do with YL, OM, XYL, refer to them by their name or call. Frankly for being someone that has a few years on them ( okay old) I find all these different pronouns confusing and hard to keep track. Much easier to remember their name and/or call. Plus people love to hear their name so it makes it easier. Bill AC0W _____ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > on behalf of Art Zygielbaum <k0aiz@arrl.org <mailto:k0aiz@arrl.org> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 12:04:12 PM To: Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net <mailto:w7vo@comcast.net> >; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:34732] Re: Use of YL and OM as gender specific pronouns To add to the mix, I've heard complaints about "Elmer." It's gender specific. The suggestion is to use "mentor." YL and OM made a lot of sense when ham radio was mostly spark, CW or MCW and sending letters took a lot of time. That is no long true. Maybe we just need to drop the terms and follow current common practice. I know this is an uncomfortable topic for many people. But it is a sensitive topic for younger people today. Thanks for bringing it up, Mike. 73, Art -- Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ ARRL Midwest Division Director Member, Executive Committee Member, Programs and Services Committee Member, ARRL Foundation Board ARRL - The National Association for Amateur Radio® On 4/10/2023 11:24 AM, Michael Ritz wrote: ODV; I have had a member ask me the following: Nicole Music wrote on 4/10/23 08:15:
.....YL means young lady and refers to all female operators regardless of their age. OM means old man and refers to all male operators. My question is for those that don't self-identify with female or male what is that abbreviation? Is there a difference for them or do we just refer to them as YL or OM regardless of their gender?
Given the current political climate are there any suggestion here? I guess the larger question is: Does the League need to think about working to eliminate the YL and OM as pronouns in amateur radio, since there will be some people that fall outside of those two defined categories? Is there a third pronoun that can be used for those that identify as neither a YL or an OM? 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (6)
-
Art Zygielbaum -
Lippert, Vernon "Bill", AC0W (Dir, DK) -
Michael Ritz -
Mike Raisbeck -
Propper, David, K2DP (VD, MW) -
RBFamiglio＠verizon.net