Chris, Another disturbing item that Maria and I discussed is that this conference did not exactly conform to Robert's Rules of Order. There were very few formal motions and lots of informal policy making and ad hoc discussion, at least that's my understanding. Also, this business with proxies looks a bit fishy to me. We have often discussed this issue. This group has a lot of power and influence, however it is not represented proportionately and way too "anti - ARRL" and clicky (for lack of a better term). If\ we try to change things, we would most likely be through the regulatory process, we will always look like the bad guys, even though we give 70% of the exams. Maria did tell me that the principals are changing in the group and that newer people are replacing some of the old guard. Maybe there's some hope for the future. Any ideas? HK Harold Kramer, WJ1B Chief Operating Officer ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio 860 594 0220 hkramer@arrl.org <http://www.arrl.org/> ________________________________ From: w3kd@aol.com [mailto:w3kd@aol.com] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 2:01 PM To: arrl-odv Cc: Somma, Maria, AB1FM Subject: [arrl-odv:17050] Re: NVCEC Conference Report Greetings. A couple of observations from reading Maria's report: 1. I think Maria's report is really excellent -- it is thorough, concise, and gives a comprehensive picture of the nature of the teleconference. 2. I am concerned about the following portion of it, despite the ultimate result: Elections of NCVEC officers and committee chairs and members for 2008/2009 resumed Nominations for NCVEC Chairman: Scotty Neustadter, W4WW, of WCARS, Mike Maston, N6OPH, of SANDARC, Larry Pollock, NB5X, of W5YI. There was a discussion about whether a representative from ARRL or W5YI could serve as chair of the NCVEC. Guin mentioned that there has been a belief among a lot of the VECs that the ARRL and W5YI do more than the rest of us. They are quite involved in a commercial venture along with the testing and that's a big part of why they ought to able to serve on any committee but not chair any committee. To nominate someone from one of those two VECs to be NCVEC Chairman is breaking new ground. Maia observed that while not making anyone from W5YI or ARRL chair of the NCVEC has been the practice, it never was adopted, never was voted on or discussed. He said there is no ruling whats oever that ARRL or W5YI could not serve as chair of QPC or NCVEC Conference. It was just felt that one VEC and one vote and 95% of all testing done by those two organizations, maybe someone else should be in charge but it has never been voted on or agreed. Fuszard commented that NCVEC has never addressed this and it's not in the bylaws. They individually or collectively are viewed as the 800 pound gorillas and could influence the group but he questions that concept. The NCVEC decides the direction of the conference and if Pollock was to become chairman and if we determine in the next 12 months we don't like that, we can replace him at the next conference so it would not be a long term experience. Wiley stated he would only be worried if one V EC held 3 or 4 positions. Guin commented that we don't know if we have a problem yet. A vote was called and the NCVEC representatives elected Pollock to his first term as chairman. John Johnston, W3BE, of LARC, was elected as vice chairman. Anders was elected as Chairman of the Question Pool Committee. Green, Pollock, Fuszard and Wiley were appointed as members of the QPC; Anders, Green, Wiley and Pollock are returning QPC members. It strikes me that the bias against ARRL exhibited here, notwithstanding the election of W5YI's Pollock as NCVEC Chair, is disquieting. It reveals that the ARRL is, even now, after all the years of active participation in the NCVEC system, still being deliberately marginalized by the NCVEC, which has historically done this on an ongoing basis. Perhaps as a result of ARRL's experience in the past, where we have had to fight just to keep ARRL representatives on the Question Pool Committee, I get the idea that the NCVEC is still very much like a homeowner's association, involving people who believe that they have a lot of power as the result of their role in it, and who, for whatever ego reasons, like to exercise that perceived dominion over (especially) the ARRL, the alpha dog of the bunch in terms of exams administered. I have always characterized the NCVEC as a creature essentially created, and very obviously nurtured by John Johnston, W3BE, when he was at FCC as a an entity that would serve as an alternative to ARRL in terms of influence in Amateur Radio regulatory matters (and that John himself could influence). To an admittedly far lesser degree now than in years past, NCVEC still se ems to serve that role. I suspect that Johnston's involvement in it now is for the same reasons. I am not suggesting that ARRL do anything affirmative about this now, and I believe that ARRL is exceptionally well-represented at the NCVEC by Maria and Perry. But the rather bizarre logic exhibited by lesser minds at the NCVEC does, I think, bear watching closely, and it is unfortunate that this foolishness continues to the present time. I had hoped it would be gone by now. 73, Chris W3KD Christopher D. Imlay BOOTH, FRERET, IMLAY & TEPPER, P.C. 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B <wj1b@arrl.org> To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Cc: Somma, Maria, AB1FM <msomma@arrl.org> Sent: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 9:21 am Subject: [arrl-odv:17048] NVCEC Conference Report Hi, You will find attached Maria Somma's full report on the NCVEC Conference. An edited version of this information has already appeared on the Web site and will also appear in this week's ARRL Letter. If you have any questions, please feel free to refer them directly to Maria. 73, Harold Harold Kramer, WJ1B Chief Operating Officer ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 Telephone: 860 594 0220 email: hkramer@arrl.org <mailto:hkramer@arrl.org> web: www.arrl.org/ <http://www.arrl.org/> ________________________________ It's time to go back to school! 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