[arrl-odv:28850] update on the Repeater Directory
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors, At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation. At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps. (1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information. As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory. 73, Howard, WB2ITX -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org<mailto:hmichel@arrl.org>
Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand". In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously. Best 73's, Rod, K0DAS On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation.
At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps.
(1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information.
As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM To: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> Cc: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand". In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously. Best 73's, Rod, K0DAS On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org> > wrote: Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors, At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation. At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps. (1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information. As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory. 73, Howard, WB2ITX -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org <mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
On the flip side of the coin, many are shunning the coordinators because they are non transparent and often operate like a good old boys club and a bureaucracy. It’s a two way street and sadly I have to say that there has been failure all around. Also, crowdsourced data isn’t necessarily bad. However I don’t think it’s suited for a hard copy book. Ria N2RJ On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators.
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* arrl-odv *On Behalf Of *Rod Blocksome *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM *To:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> *Cc:* Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R < rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory
Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand".
In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously.
Best 73's,
Rod, K0DAS
On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) < wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation.
At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps.
(1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory.
(2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information.
As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
--
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX
Chief Executive Officer
ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio®
225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>-1494 USA
Telephone: +1 860-594-0404
email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Agreed Rita. Coordination is one of the last things that stands between the VHF/UHF amateur bands and an 11 meter-like environment. The coordinators work with no payment or filing fees and need support, acknowledgement and assistance to get quality help and coordinators. With perhaps some exceptions they mean well, but get burned out and get nothing but flak for most hams. We are starting to get uncoordinated systems here in my general region installed by new hams who are clueless about the part 90 type standards to apply for best practices or do not care. It makes it difficult for anyone to operate when they clash. I am sure some of you have the same stories. It is not going to get better on its own. In my area, as with many, there are no 2-meter frequencies left and few 220 or 440 either. And private ham hot spots, newcomers mainly, just open up anywhere including our satellite bands – whole ‘nother story. What is the solution? This will be the next big thing (problem) and people will look to organizations like our League to solve it. Not necessarily get involved in the work but help organize the standards and policies beneficial to most hams. That is a big vacuum right now. Should we stay ahead of it or ignore it? Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 1:00 PM To: Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org>; Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:28856] Re: update on the Repeater Directory On the flip side of the coin, many are shunning the coordinators because they are non transparent and often operate like a good old boys club and a bureaucracy. It’s a two way street and sadly I have to say that there has been failure all around. Also, crowdsourced data isn’t necessarily bad. However I don’t think it’s suited for a hard copy book. Ria N2RJ On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > wrote: When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM To: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org> > Cc: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org <mailto:sford@arrl.org> >; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org <mailto:rinderbitzen@arrl.org> >; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand". In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously. Best 73's, Rod, K0DAS On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org> > wrote: Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors, At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation. At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps. (1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information. As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory. 73, Howard, WB2ITX -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g> -1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org <mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Rita = Ria I am sorry Ria, auto correct is really a curse. Selected OFF. Bob K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 1:17 PM To: rjairam@gmail.com Cc: 'Ford, Steve, WB8IMY' <sford@arrl.org>; 'Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R' <rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; 'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28858] Re: update on the Repeater Directory Agreed Rita. Coordination is one of the last things that stands between the VHF/UHF amateur bands and an 11 meter-like environment. The coordinators work with no payment or filing fees and need support, acknowledgement and assistance to get quality help and coordinators. With perhaps some exceptions they mean well, but get burned out and get nothing but flak for most hams. We are starting to get uncoordinated systems here in my general region installed by new hams who are clueless about the part 90 type standards to apply for best practices or do not care. It makes it difficult for anyone to operate when they clash. I am sure some of you have the same stories. It is not going to get better on its own. In my area, as with many, there are no 2-meter frequencies left and few 220 or 440 either. And private ham hot spots, newcomers mainly, just open up anywhere including our satellite bands – whole ‘nother story. What is the solution? This will be the next big thing (problem) and people will look to organizations like our League to solve it. Not necessarily get involved in the work but help organize the standards and policies beneficial to most hams. That is a big vacuum right now. Should we stay ahead of it or ignore it? Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: rjairam@gmail.com <mailto:rjairam@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 1:00 PM To: Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> > Cc: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org <mailto:sford@arrl.org> >; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org <mailto:rinderbitzen@arrl.org> >; Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org> >; Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com <mailto:rod.blocksome@gmail.com> >; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> > Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:28856] Re: update on the Repeater Directory On the flip side of the coin, many are shunning the coordinators because they are non transparent and often operate like a good old boys club and a bureaucracy. It’s a two way street and sadly I have to say that there has been failure all around. Also, crowdsourced data isn’t necessarily bad. However I don’t think it’s suited for a hard copy book. Ria N2RJ On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > wrote: When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM To: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org> > Cc: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org <mailto:sford@arrl.org> >; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org <mailto:rinderbitzen@arrl.org> >; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand". In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously. Best 73's, Rod, K0DAS On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org> > wrote: Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors, At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation. At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps. (1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information. As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory. 73, Howard, WB2ITX -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g> -1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org <mailto:hmichel@arrl.org> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Just as I was on my way to NJ superior court to change it... rats Ria On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:59 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> wrote:
Rita = Ria
I am sorry Ria, auto correct is really a curse. Selected OFF.
Bob K3RF
*From:* arrl-odv *On Behalf Of *Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 1:17 PM *To:* rjairam@gmail.com *Cc:* 'Ford, Steve, WB8IMY' <sford@arrl.org>; 'Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R' < rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; 'arrl-odv' <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28858] Re: update on the Repeater Directory
Agreed Rita.
Coordination is one of the last things that stands between the VHF/UHF amateur bands and an 11 meter-like environment. The coordinators work with no payment or filing fees and need support, acknowledgement and assistance to get quality help and coordinators. With perhaps some exceptions they mean well, but get burned out and get nothing but flak for most hams. We are starting to get uncoordinated systems here in my general region installed by new hams who are clueless about the part 90 type standards to apply for best practices or do not care. It makes it difficult for anyone to operate when they clash. I am sure some of you have the same stories. It is not going to get better on its own. In my area, as with many, there are no 2-meter frequencies left and few 220 or 440 either. And private ham hot spots, newcomers mainly, just open up anywhere including our satellite bands – whole ‘nother story.
What is the solution? This will be the next big thing (problem) and people will look to organizations like our League to solve it. Not necessarily get involved in the work but help organize the standards and policies beneficial to most hams. That is a big vacuum right now.
Should we stay ahead of it or ignore it?
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* rjairam@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 1:00 PM *To:* Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> *Cc:* Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R < rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org>; Rod Blocksome <rod.blocksome@gmail.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* Re: [arrl-odv:28856] Re: update on the Repeater Directory
On the flip side of the coin, many are shunning the coordinators because they are non transparent and often operate like a good old boys club and a bureaucracy. It’s a two way street and sadly I have to say that there has been failure all around.
Also, crowdsourced data isn’t necessarily bad. However I don’t think it’s suited for a hard copy book.
Ria
N2RJ
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators.
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* arrl-odv *On Behalf Of *Rod Blocksome *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM *To:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> *Cc:* Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R < rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory
Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand".
In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously.
Best 73's,
Rod, K0DAS
On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) < wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation.
At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps.
(1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory.
(2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information.
As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
--
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX
Chief Executive Officer
ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio®
225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/225+Main+Street,+Newington,+CT+06111?entry=gmail&source=g>-1494 USA
Telephone: +1 860-594-0404
email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
None of the Texas/Oklahoma coordinators will work with RF Finder due to the staggering inaccuracies. Their past attempts, according to them, to do so were rebuffed. They consider the Directory to be trash and our agreement with RF Finder to be slap in their face on their efforts to maintain coordination. Unless we wish to assume responsibility for coordination and unless we make peace with the coordinators, the problems will remain. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office:512-445-6262 Cell:512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *_______________________________________*** ** On 10/10/19 11:53 AM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv wrote:
When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. >From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators.
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* arrl-odv *On Behalf Of *Rod Blocksome *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM *To:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> *Cc:* Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory
Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand".
In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously.
Best 73's,
Rod, K0DAS
On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org <mailto:wb2itx@arrl.org>> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation.
At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps.
(1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory.
(2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information.
As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
--
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX
Chief Executive Officer
ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio®
225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA
Telephone: +1 860-594-0404
email:hmichel@arrl.org <mailto:hmichel@arrl.org>
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Sounds like we are going back to the way it was before rf finder (when the process worked well and we had accurate listings and it was a trusted book) except rf finder is still in the loop.Southeastern repeater coordinators and repeater owners will not work with rf finder because, rf finder will not protect repeater coordinates, reconginse established coordination groups and compensate for the information. Many site owners have requirements and agreements with repeater owners to not publish coordinates. Two coordinators told me they were told by rf finder. If you dont give us your data we will steal it. Many hams tell me they stopped buying the repeater directory. Crowd sourcing for repeaters doesn't work. People are inventing pairs, taking over pairs, etc..I think the solution is to go back to the way we use to do it without rf finder.73,Greg, W4OZK -------- Original message --------From: John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com> Date: 10/10/19 12:26 PM (GMT-06:00) To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:28859] Re: update on the Repeater Directory None of the Texas/Oklahoma coordinators will work with RF Finder due to the staggering inaccuracies. Their past attempts, according to them, to do so were rebuffed. They consider the Directory to be trash and our agreement with RF Finder to be slap in their face on their efforts to maintain coordination. Unless we wish to assume responsibility for coordination and unless we make peace with the coordinators, the problems will remain. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ On 10/10/19 11:53 AM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv wrote: <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Helvetica; panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Consolas; panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} pre {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0 {mso-style-name:msonormal; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} span.HTMLPreformattedChar {mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted"; font-family:Consolas;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --> When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. >From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Rod Blocksome Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM To: Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> Cc: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R <rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand". In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously. Best 73's, Rod, K0DAS On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote: Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors, At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation. At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps. (1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information. As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory. 73, Howard, WB2ITX -- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Agree! Mark, HDX On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:53 AM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
When we stopped sourcing information from the repeater coordinators and went to crowd sourcing, the quality of the listings dropped considerably. From my own experience in SE Pennsylvania regarding the greater tristate area, the book is , maybe, 65% accurate at best. Moreover, some repeater owners seem to think they can change their location or PL or power without re-coordinating again because they just upload their new information to the RF Finder. Then they lose their coordination when that comes to light and the wars start. Been involved in those recently. It is going to get worse too unless we support coordination and coordinators.
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* arrl-odv *On Behalf Of *Rod Blocksome *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:21 AM *To:* Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> *Cc:* Ford, Steve, WB8IMY <sford@arrl.org>; Inderbitzen, Bob, NQ1R < rinderbitzen@arrl.org>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:28854] Re: update on the Repeater Directory
Thanks for the update Howard. These actions should make the Repeater Directory worthy of the ARRL "brand".
In general, ARRL publications have a reputation of high quality and accuracy which we need to maintain continuously.
Best 73's,
Rod, K0DAS
On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) < wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation.
At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps.
(1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory.
(2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information.
As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
--
Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX
Chief Executive Officer
ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio®
225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA
Telephone: +1 860-594-0404
email: hmichel@arrl.org
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Good to hear. It has been a mess in my opinion ever since we started outsourcing it. Mark, HDX On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 5:47 PM Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) <wb2itx@arrl.org> wrote:
Dear Officers, Directors and Vice Directors,
At the April A&F meeting, an issue was raised about the quality of listings in the Repeater Directory. At that meeting, we committed to study the issues in detail and report back to the A&F in July with a recommendation.
At the July A&F meeting, we committed to work with RFinder to find additional ways to improve the repeater listings which ultimately get published annually in the Repeater Directory. Since that meeting we’ve taken the following steps.
(1) Publication Manager Steve Ford, WB8IMY has taken-on additional editing of the Repeater Directory to correct obvious and glaring errors. For example, frequency coordinators contributing data to RFinder will sometimes include city-name spelling errors, inconsistent naming, and incorrect state abbreviations. To the extent possible, Steve has already corrected over one thousand errors. The corrections are carried into RFinder’s online database and will be reflected in the next edition of the Directory. (2) We have assigned Member Services Representative Jon Faasen, AA1EZ to serve as liaison to RFinder, supporting anyone who contacts us for assistance with correcting listings in the Repeater Directory. RFinder will work with Jon to ensure the corrections are made, and Jon will reach out to frequency coordinators and Section Managers for any instances requiring additional verification of repeater information.
As we reported at the A&F meeting, the landscape for repeaters has changed significantly in recent years. A proliferation of digital repeaters and related communities maintaining lists of active repeaters has introduced new challenges to the previous single-source model. Repeater users increasingly turn to online services such as RFinder for more-regularly-updated sources of repeater listings, and where listings are contributed and maintained by frequency coordinators, digital network databases, repeater owners, and users. I’m hopeful the additional effort we are making to review and correct listings will contribute to an even better annual Repeater Directory.
73, Howard, WB2ITX
-- Howard E. Michel, WB2ITX Chief Executive Officer ARRL, The National Association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Telephone: +1 860-594-0404 email: hmichel@arrl.org
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participants (7)
-
Bob Famiglio, K3RF -
Greg Sarratt -
John Robert Stratton -
Mark J Tharp -
Michel, Howard, WB2ITX (CEO) -
rjairam＠gmail.com -
Rod Blocksome