[arrl-odv:32129] Proposed Silent Key - Donor Category Annotation
I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”. We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report. Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class. I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting. The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute? 73, Dick, N6AA
Well said, Dick. Agree with you on this I do. Mark, HDX On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:18 PM Richard Norton via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”.
We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report.
Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class.
I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting.
The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute?
73,
Dick, N6AA
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Dick and Mark, I respectfully disagree. It's all about recognizing members for their extra support of the League. Otherwise, why even denote Life Membership in the SK listings? And if the new recognition noted spurs somebody to become a Diamond or Maxim member it's all the better. 73; Mike W7VO
On 03/11/2021 2:34 PM Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com> wrote:
Well said, Dick. Agree with you on this I do.
Mark, HDX
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:18 PM Richard Norton via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org > wrote:
> > I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”.
We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report.
Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class.
I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting.
The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute?
73,
Dick, N6AA
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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I can see both sides of this. No matter what we do, people will say the ARRL only cares about money. I’m a bit on the fence about recognizing high donor silent keys because it does create a sort of “classism.” I also think that money shouldn’t be the only consideration for a deceased ham. Many hams don’t have a lot of money yet pour their hearts into this hobby and contribute their time, knowledge and service. It’s easy for a multimillionaire to write a big check but some people go and teach others, license new hams (eg. VE honor roll) or broaden ham radio’s audience (eg teachers, astronauts etc). On the other hand, people do make significant monetary contributions to this hobby and that shouldn’t go unnoticed. So I’m really not sure what to make of this. Ria N2RJ On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:18 PM Richard Norton via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”.
We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report.
Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class.
I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting.
The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute?
73,
Dick, N6AA
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Adding symbols after a name in recognition of something does have it’s limits. At some point they just become noise and people ignore. Now you’ve just lost what you wanted to accomplish. For me I can keep track of what 3 or 4 individual symbols indicate. Go over 4 I ignore everything as I’m not going to continue to look at the key to figure out what they all mean. I think we have reached that limit. Bill AC0W From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 5:02 PM To: Richard Norton <richardjnorton@yahoo.com> Cc: Arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:32133] Re: Proposed Silent Key - Donor Category Annotation I can see both sides of this. No matter what we do, people will say the ARRL only cares about money. I’m a bit on the fence about recognizing high donor silent keys because it does create a sort of “classism.” I also think that money shouldn’t be the only consideration for a deceased ham. Many hams don’t have a lot of money yet pour their hearts into this hobby and contribute their time, knowledge and service. It’s easy for a multimillionaire to write a big check but some people go and teach others, license new hams (eg. VE honor roll) or broaden ham radio’s audience (eg teachers, astronauts etc). On the other hand, people do make significant monetary contributions to this hobby and that shouldn’t go unnoticed. So I’m really not sure what to make of this. Ria N2RJ On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:18 PM Richard Norton via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > wrote: I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”. We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report. Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class. I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting. The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute? 73, Dick, N6AA _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I’m with AC0W – over four recognitions and the system becomes meaningless. -Fred K1VR From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of AC0W Bill Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 6:26 PM To: ARRL ODV List Subject: [arrl-odv:32135] Re: Proposed Silent Key - Donor Category Annotation Adding symbols after a name in recognition of something does have it’s limits. At some point they just become noise and people ignore. Now you’ve just lost what you wanted to accomplish. For me I can keep track of what 3 or 4 individual symbols indicate. Go over 4 I ignore everything as I’m not going to continue to look at the key to figure out what they all mean. I think we have reached that limit. Bill AC0W From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 5:02 PM To: Richard Norton <richardjnorton@yahoo.com> Cc: Arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:32133] Re: Proposed Silent Key - Donor Category Annotation I can see both sides of this. No matter what we do, people will say the ARRL only cares about money. I’m a bit on the fence about recognizing high donor silent keys because it does create a sort of “classism.” I also think that money shouldn’t be the only consideration for a deceased ham. Many hams don’t have a lot of money yet pour their hearts into this hobby and contribute their time, knowledge and service. It’s easy for a multimillionaire to write a big check but some people go and teach others, license new hams (eg. VE honor roll) or broaden ham radio’s audience (eg teachers, astronauts etc). On the other hand, people do make significant monetary contributions to this hobby and that shouldn’t go unnoticed. So I’m really not sure what to make of this. Ria N2RJ On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:18 PM Richard Norton via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote: I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”. We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report. Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class. I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting. The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute? 73, Dick, N6AA _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I still agree with Dick,, and I might mention that this is supposed to roll out in the May issue, which by my math is most likely already at the printer as it's now March 12th. ??? snip-- (from last week's "In-News") "Also starting with the * May* issue, the “Silent Keys” column will begin recognizing Maxim Society and current Diamond Club members. ARRL Life Members will still be represented by a red diamond. Maxim Society memberswill be represented by a blue diamond. Current Diamond Club members will be represented by an orange diamond. The colors were chosen for their ability to be distinguished from one another regardless of which other color they appear next to. This mockup shows how the page will look (please note: this is only a sample; the data is not real)." endsnip-- I still believe this should be a member decision, and we need to respect that. How many donors specifically ask to be anonymous you may ask? According to the 2019 Annual report: Maxim Society members, 21 anonymous Leadership donors (which includes donations over 1,000 for Diamond, and other programs) 14 anonymous. I might note the text above only states "Diamond Club" not over $1000 level Diamond Club so the number of anonymous wishes could be substantially higher than 14. I could care less if I end up with a blue diamond next to my call but then I also *did not* check the box to be an anonymous donor. That is my point. And as I mentioned before, in order to process the SK list with this in place, AND still respect the members wishes we will have to bounce every SK listing off the donor lists to validate if they wanted to be anonymous. Or perhaps this just shows up on the internal member search which I believe is different than the one ODV has access to. I know my data does not show either Maxim or Diamond club and I am a member of both. (See below two examples, I used K9LA and myself ) Can we get some insight as to how this process is going to be done please? Mark, HDX K9LA-Life member, Maxim, and Diamond Club [image: image.png] KB7HDX-Life member, Maxim, and Diamond Club [image: image.png] On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:31 PM <hopengarten@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
I’m with AC0W – over four recognitions and the system becomes meaningless.
-Fred K1VR
*From:* arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] *On Behalf Of *AC0W Bill *Sent:* Thursday, March 11, 2021 6:26 PM *To:* ARRL ODV List *Subject:* [arrl-odv:32135] Re: Proposed Silent Key - Donor Category Annotation
Adding symbols after a name in recognition of something does have it’s limits. At some point they just become noise and people ignore. Now you’ve just lost what you wanted to accomplish.
For me I can keep track of what 3 or 4 individual symbols indicate. Go over 4 I ignore everything as I’m not going to continue to look at the key to figure out what they all mean.
I think we have reached that limit.
Bill
AC0W
*From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> *On Behalf Of * rjairam@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, March 11, 2021 5:02 PM *To:* Richard Norton <richardjnorton@yahoo.com> *Cc:* Arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> *Subject:* [arrl-odv:32133] Re: Proposed Silent Key - Donor Category Annotation
I can see both sides of this.
No matter what we do, people will say the ARRL only cares about money.
I’m a bit on the fence about recognizing high donor silent keys because it does create a sort of “classism.”
I also think that money shouldn’t be the only consideration for a deceased ham. Many hams don’t have a lot of money yet pour their hearts into this hobby and contribute their time, knowledge and service. It’s easy for a multimillionaire to write a big check but some people go and teach others, license new hams (eg. VE honor roll) or broaden ham radio’s audience (eg teachers, astronauts etc).
On the other hand, people do make significant monetary contributions to this hobby and that shouldn’t go unnoticed.
So I’m really not sure what to make of this.
Ria
N2RJ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:18 PM Richard Norton via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
I think there is a risk that using the Silent Keys listings to recognize donors will be used to further bolster the argument made by some that “ARRL is all about money”.
We already recognize donors in QST and in the League’s Annual Report.
Personally, I am also concerned that some members will be less inclined to want their calls listed in SK when they pass away because the absence of a special designator will make it clear they’re in the “non-donor” or “insignificant-donor” class.
I know of no other group, such as university alumni associations, that includes lifetime donation history in their equivalent to SK reporting.
The Silent Key listing serves to pay our respect to all deceased members, not to create financially based classes or tiers. Can’t we put money aside when paying this one final tribute?
73,
Dick, N6AA
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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participants (6)
-
AC0W Bill -
hopengarten＠post.harvard.edu -
Mark J Tharp -
Michael Ritz -
Richard Norton -
rjairam＠gmail.com