[arrl-odv:26598] Re: Update on Form 605 Changes
At 04:43 PM 7/17/2017, Shelley, Barry, N1VXY wrote:
We heard back from the FCC (actually, we received an e-mail sent to the entire VEC Community this time) regarding our concerns about the implementation of what is being called the felony question.
In summary, they have moved the implementation date back to the firm date September 7, 2017, roughly a month from the original implementation date. After that date, and at a specific time which will be announced sometime before that date, .all electronic batch and interactive filings will reflect the new form change. Any electronic batch files submitted in the old format after the specified time will receive an errored response file and will need to be corrected, there will be no grace period when the change occurs.
The felony question will have to be answered for all applications for New, Modifications, Renewal Modifications and Amendments, and answered each time an application is filed. Further, clubs are not exempt from the felony question. The question applies to the club as an entity and to the trustee, but not to any other individual officers. There are requirements on how and what to file if the applicant has answered yes to the felony question, including specifically what the Commission will require if the applicant requests the information to remain out of the public view.
Maria Somma, AB1FM, ARRL VEC Manager, will be attending the NCVEC conference this coming Friday where she plans to come to an agreement with the other VECs on the specifics of the changes to the NCVEC form and other administrative issues. This change will require our stocking the VEC teams with new forms and will likely cost in the neighborhood of $1,500 for the initial printing of the new Form 605.
We will post a story on the ARRL website about the FCCs announcement in the next day or so.
Barry or Chris - Is this change something that requires the usual certification that it doesn't impose an undue burden and that the government has a reason for collecting it? After all, they don't even collect birth date any more. What will happen if the box is checked "yes"? Will the applicant or existing ham then be disqualified? Under what circumstances might someone be disqualified? I don't recall this ever being on an FCC form for the Amateur Service. Since it will be part of a renewal, it sounds like even someone licensed 75 years ago will have to disclose (and possibly disqualified). We will really need to be ready with an FAQ with what we know about how the FCC is going to use and share this information. From what I can tell in a quick search, as many Americans have criminal records as they have college diplomas. That's not the same as a felony conviction though. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-r... The estimate in 2014 was that 24 million people have a felony conviction, about one in twelve adults. At the risk of getting into an ugly political debate... I suppose one could look ay this through left-wing or right-wing eyes and see very different things, but whatever is happening her may have a significant impact on our ability to attract new hams. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-r... As far as I know, in the past the FCC has only disqualified a very small number of people (a dozen?) from holding an Amateur Radio license, mostly on moral turpitude issues. Even murder has not been disqualifying generally. Except for those convicted of sexual predator crimes, the convicted person serves his/her time, than maybe some parole, then his/her case is closed and the debt to society is paid. Of course, felons continue to have trouble with credit, housing and employment, and many are denied voting rights (though most states have a method to regain them). Anyhow, just thinking out loud and maybe we're just at the tail end of the dog (government). As you may be able to tell, I'm not thinking favorably about it. I think their current "analysis by complaint" method works fine. -- Tom ===== e-mail: k1ki@arrl.org ARRL New England Division Director http://www.arrl.org/ Tom Frenaye, K1KI, P O Box J, West Suffield CT 06093 Phone: 860-668-5444
Tom: I will let Chris respond to your first question. As to what happens if an applicant checks "yes" the FCC explanation says..... "Upon review of the felony explanation, a decision will be made whether to grant the application or designate it for hearing. The timeframe for this part of the process depends on the completeness and content of the response. If the application is granted, it will be processed like any other grant, and no paper license will be sent to the applicant unless he or she has modified his or her preferences in ULS to request a paper license. If the application is designated for hearing, the applicant will be notified by mail to the address listed in the application. The applicant gets twenty days from the mailing of the hearing designation order to file a written appearance and will be able to argue during the hearing that the application should be granted." 73, Barry, N1VXY -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of Frenaye, Tom, K1KI Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 5:35 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:26598] Re: Update on Form 605 Changes At 04:43 PM 7/17/2017, Shelley, Barry, N1VXY wrote:
We heard back from the FCC (actually, we received an e-mail sent to the entire VEC Community this time) regarding our concerns about the implementation of what is being called the "felony question".
In summary, they have moved the implementation date back to the "firm date" September 7, 2017, roughly a month from the original implementation date. After that date, and at a specific time which will be announced sometime before that date, "....all electronic batch and interactive filings will reflect the new form change. Any electronic batch files submitted in the old format after the specified time will receive an errored response file and will need to be corrected, there will be no grace period when the change occurs."
The felony question will have to be answered for all applications for New, Modifications, Renewal Modifications and Amendments, and answered each time an application is filed. Further, clubs are not exempt from the felony question. The question applies to the club as an entity and to the trustee, but not to any other individual officers. There are requirements on how and what to file if the applicant has answered "yes" to the felony question, including specifically what the Commission will require if the applicant requests the information to remain out of the public view.
Maria Somma, AB1FM, ARRL VEC Manager, will be attending the NCVEC conference this coming Friday where she plans to come to an agreement with the other VECs on the specifics of the changes to the NCVEC form and other administrative issues. This change will require our stocking the VEC teams with new forms and will likely cost in the neighborhood of $1,500 for the initial printing of the new Form 605.
We will post a story on the ARRL website about the FCC's announcement in the next day or so.
Barry or Chris - Is this change something that requires the usual certification that it doesn't impose an undue burden and that the government has a reason for collecting it? After all, they don't even collect birth date any more. What will happen if the box is checked "yes"? Will the applicant or existing ham then be disqualified? Under what circumstances might someone be disqualified? I don't recall this ever being on an FCC form for the Amateur Service. Since it will be part of a renewal, it sounds like even someone licensed 75 years ago will have to disclose (and possibly disqualified). We will really need to be ready with an FAQ with what we know about how the FCC is going to use and share this information. From what I can tell in a quick search, as many Americans have criminal records as they have college diplomas. That's not the same as a felony conviction though. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-r... The estimate in 2014 was that 24 million people have a felony conviction, about one in twelve adults. At the risk of getting into an ugly political debate... I suppose one could look ay this through left-wing or right-wing eyes and see very different things, but whatever is happening her may have a significant impact on our ability to attract new hams. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-r... As far as I know, in the past the FCC has only disqualified a very small number of people (a dozen?) from holding an Amateur Radio license, mostly on moral turpitude issues. Even murder has not been disqualifying generally. Except for those convicted of sexual predator crimes, the convicted person serves his/her time, than maybe some parole, then his/her case is closed and the debt to society is paid. Of course, felons continue to have trouble with credit, housing and employment, and many are denied voting rights (though most states have a method to regain them). Anyhow, just thinking out loud and maybe we're just at the tail end of the dog (government). As you may be able to tell, I'm not thinking favorably about it. I think their current "analysis by complaint" method works fine. -- Tom ===== e-mail: k1ki@arrl.org ARRL New England Division Director http://www.arrl.org/ Tom Frenaye, K1KI, P O Box J, West Suffield CT 06093 Phone: 860-668-5444 _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Tom, we are still working through the details of this and FCC has not done a good job of handling any aspect of it. We are going back to them with additional questions, and I will copy the Board with the further correspondence. Asking the felony question has been done in other radio services for years and it is an element of the FCC's obligation to make character qualifications determinations. This is in my view a good thing to the extent that it signals a willingness by FCC to finally adjudicate the dozens of applications for renewals that have been sidelined in the WIPS file for years, during which time the licensee continues to operate if he or she timely filed a renewal. It is not a new requirement in most radio services, and if I recall correctly, the felony question was asked in older 605s before the VEC days. However, your question about authority to do data collection from OMB we asked Scot Stone and he never answered. So we are asking again. If the box is checked yes, details in a narrative have to be provided. There is no automatic disqualification. And there are numerous unanswered questions about minors whose records are sealed and whose records may have been expunged when they turn 18, etc. This is not well-thought-out at all and we are keeping their feet to the fire. I may be called during the NCVEC conference which is occurring on Friday to discuss this with the VECs and FCC staff. I am waiting for confirmation from Maria on that. You are very properly concerned about this, Tom. right now we don't have enough details to prepare a FAQ but we will in due course. 73, Chris W3KD On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Tom Frenaye <frenaye@pcnet.com> wrote:
At 04:43 PM 7/17/2017, Shelley, Barry, N1VXY wrote:
We heard back from the FCC (actually, we received an e-mail sent to the entire VEC Community this time) regarding our concerns about the implementation of what is being called the “felony question”.
In summary, they have moved the implementation date back to the “firm date” September 7, 2017, roughly a month from the original implementation date. After that date, and at a specific time which will be announced sometime before that date, “….all electronic batch and interactive filings will reflect the new form change. Any electronic batch files submitted in the old format after the specified time will receive an errored response file and will need to be corrected, there will be no grace period when the change occurs.”
The felony question will have to be answered for all applications for New, Modifications, Renewal Modifications and Amendments, and answered each time an application is filed. Further, clubs are not exempt from the felony question. The question applies to the club as an entity and to the trustee, but not to any other individual officers. There are requirements on how and what to file if the applicant has answered “yes” to the felony question, including specifically what the Commission will require if the applicant requests the information to remain out of the public view.
Maria Somma, AB1FM, ARRL VEC Manager, will be attending the NCVEC conference this coming Friday where she plans to come to an agreement with the other VECs on the specifics of the changes to the NCVEC form and other administrative issues. This change will require our stocking the VEC teams with new forms and will likely cost in the neighborhood of $1,500 for the initial printing of the new Form 605.
We will post a story on the ARRL website about the FCC’s announcement in the next day or so.
Barry or Chris -
Is this change something that requires the usual certification that it doesn't impose an undue burden and that the government has a reason for collecting it? After all, they don't even collect birth date any more.
What will happen if the box is checked "yes"? Will the applicant or existing ham then be disqualified? Under what circumstances might someone be disqualified? I don't recall this ever being on an FCC form for the Amateur Service. Since it will be part of a renewal, it sounds like even someone licensed 75 years ago will have to disclose (and possibly disqualified).
We will really need to be ready with an FAQ with what we know about how the FCC is going to use and share this information.
From what I can tell in a quick search, as many Americans have criminal records as they have college diplomas. That's not the same as a felony conviction though.
https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many- americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas
The estimate in 2014 was that 24 million people have a felony conviction, about one in twelve adults.
At the risk of getting into an ugly political debate...
I suppose one could look ay this through left-wing or right-wing eyes and see very different things, but whatever is happening her may have a significant impact on our ability to attract new hams.
https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many- americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas
As far as I know, in the past the FCC has only disqualified a very small number of people (a dozen?) from holding an Amateur Radio license, mostly on moral turpitude issues. Even murder has not been disqualifying generally. Except for those convicted of sexual predator crimes, the convicted person serves his/her time, than maybe some parole, then his/her case is closed and the debt to society is paid.
Of course, felons continue to have trouble with credit, housing and employment, and many are denied voting rights (though most states have a method to regain them).
Anyhow, just thinking out loud and maybe we're just at the tail end of the dog (government).
As you may be able to tell, I'm not thinking favorably about it. I think their current "analysis by complaint" method works fine.
-- Tom
===== e-mail: k1ki@arrl.org ARRL New England Division Director http://www.arrl.org/ Tom Frenaye, K1KI, P O Box J, West Suffield CT 06093 Phone: 860-668-5444
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret & Imlay, LLC 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG
One correction, Tom: OMB has approved the collection of felony data on FCC Form 605. See the attached. Chris On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Tom Frenaye <frenaye@pcnet.com> wrote:
At 04:43 PM 7/17/2017, Shelley, Barry, N1VXY wrote:
We heard back from the FCC (actually, we received an e-mail sent to the entire VEC Community this time) regarding our concerns about the implementation of what is being called the “felony question”.
In summary, they have moved the implementation date back to the “firm date” September 7, 2017, roughly a month from the original implementation date. After that date, and at a specific time which will be announced sometime before that date, “….all electronic batch and interactive filings will reflect the new form change. Any electronic batch files submitted in the old format after the specified time will receive an errored response file and will need to be corrected, there will be no grace period when the change occurs.”
The felony question will have to be answered for all applications for New, Modifications, Renewal Modifications and Amendments, and answered each time an application is filed. Further, clubs are not exempt from the felony question. The question applies to the club as an entity and to the trustee, but not to any other individual officers. There are requirements on how and what to file if the applicant has answered “yes” to the felony question, including specifically what the Commission will require if the applicant requests the information to remain out of the public view.
Maria Somma, AB1FM, ARRL VEC Manager, will be attending the NCVEC conference this coming Friday where she plans to come to an agreement with the other VECs on the specifics of the changes to the NCVEC form and other administrative issues. This change will require our stocking the VEC teams with new forms and will likely cost in the neighborhood of $1,500 for the initial printing of the new Form 605.
We will post a story on the ARRL website about the FCC’s announcement in the next day or so.
Barry or Chris -
Is this change something that requires the usual certification that it doesn't impose an undue burden and that the government has a reason for collecting it? After all, they don't even collect birth date any more.
What will happen if the box is checked "yes"? Will the applicant or existing ham then be disqualified? Under what circumstances might someone be disqualified? I don't recall this ever being on an FCC form for the Amateur Service. Since it will be part of a renewal, it sounds like even someone licensed 75 years ago will have to disclose (and possibly disqualified).
We will really need to be ready with an FAQ with what we know about how the FCC is going to use and share this information.
From what I can tell in a quick search, as many Americans have criminal records as they have college diplomas. That's not the same as a felony conviction though.
https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many- americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas
The estimate in 2014 was that 24 million people have a felony conviction, about one in twelve adults.
At the risk of getting into an ugly political debate...
I suppose one could look ay this through left-wing or right-wing eyes and see very different things, but whatever is happening her may have a significant impact on our ability to attract new hams.
https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many- americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas
As far as I know, in the past the FCC has only disqualified a very small number of people (a dozen?) from holding an Amateur Radio license, mostly on moral turpitude issues. Even murder has not been disqualifying generally. Except for those convicted of sexual predator crimes, the convicted person serves his/her time, than maybe some parole, then his/her case is closed and the debt to society is paid.
Of course, felons continue to have trouble with credit, housing and employment, and many are denied voting rights (though most states have a method to regain them).
Anyhow, just thinking out loud and maybe we're just at the tail end of the dog (government).
As you may be able to tell, I'm not thinking favorably about it. I think their current "analysis by complaint" method works fine.
-- Tom
===== e-mail: k1ki@arrl.org ARRL New England Division Director http://www.arrl.org/ Tom Frenaye, K1KI, P O Box J, West Suffield CT 06093 Phone: 860-668-5444
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
-- Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret & Imlay, LLC 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD@ARRL.ORG
participants (3)
-
Christopher Imlay -
Shelley, Barry, N1VXY -
Tom Frenaye