If the ARRL-affiliated club maintains a “public facility” (clubhouse?) and Domino’s LOSES, all ARRL club websites must be ADA-compliant. No club house, no problem. You, Dale, are not my client and this is not legal advice. Fred Hopengarten, Esq. K1VR Six Willarch Road Lincoln, MA 01773 781.259.0088, k1vr@arrl.org New England Director cid:a4a12f0b-0468-4a39-b953-31b2a3da8564 Serving ME, NH, VT, MA, RI and CT From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of Dale Williams Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:29 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; John Robert Stratton Subject: [arrl-odv:28533] Re: Fwd: Quartz: Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court - ADA Website Case John, I must ask the question: What are the implications for every ARRL Affiliated Club that maintains a web site? 73 Dale WA8EFK On 8/7/2019 10:54 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote: ADA for websites is in the news again. See article. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court You might imagine that the internet has made life easier for people with disabilities, who can now access the same conveniences as everyone else without having to go to physical locations. However, that is not necessarily the case. The web is not a tangible place but its spaces still present obstacles to some, and the... Read in Quartz: https://apple.news/ABbb3kb-aQzS-mp9W7EzOZw _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Disclaimers notwithstanding, the comments to ODV from a licensed attorney, Board Member and self-identified Volunteer Counsel sure sound like legal opinions, if not legal advice, particularly when prior statements refer to experience in the particular area of the law. Having raised the concern, being advised staff is aware of the concern and our well regarded Connecticut Counsel is looking into this evolving issue, periodic review of progress is certainly appropriate. That said, perhaps it appropriate to address some of the issues of more direct concern to our members. 73, Jay, K0QB Sent from my iPad

On Aug 7, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:

Fred:

I disagree that a club house is needed as a public facility. Club meetings maybe, but it is no safe harbor just because there is no club station or owned property. I would not rest on that if this all goes the wrong way.

This is not legal advice as we have not undertaken legal representation of you or your radio club. Your local lawyer is welcomed to consider my comments but may come to a different conclusion after studying the facts and applying local law and customs. We have not studied your matter and will not do so unless a written, formal undertaking of representation is issued by our office.

Bob Famiglio, K3RF, 610-359-7300 ARRL Atlantic Division Volunteer Counsel

www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF

From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Fred Hopengarten Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:44 AM To: dale.wms1@frontier.com; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; 'John Robert Stratton' <N5AUS@n5aus.com> Subject: [arrl-odv:28534] Re: Fwd: Quartz: Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court - ADA Website Case

If the ARRL-affiliated club maintains a “public facility” (clubhouse?) and Domino’s LOSES, all ARRL club websites must be ADA-compliant. No club house, no problem.

You, Dale, are not my client and this is not legal advice.

Fred Hopengarten, Esq. K1VR Six Willarch Road Lincoln, MA 01773 781.259.0088, k1vr@arrl.org

New England Director <image001.png> Serving ME, NH, VT, MA, RI and CT

From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of Dale Williams Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:29 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; John Robert Stratton Subject: [arrl-odv:28533] Re: Fwd: Quartz: Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court - ADA Website Case

John,

I must ask the question: What are the implications for every ARRL Affiliated Club that maintains a web site?

73

Dale WA8EFK

On 8/7/2019 10:54 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote: ADA for websites is in the news again. See article.

_______________________________________

John Robert Stratton

N5AUS

Director West Gulf Division

Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232

_______________________________________

Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court You might imagine that the internet has made life easier for people with disabilities, who can now access the same conveniences as everyone else without having to go to physical locations. However, that is not necessarily the case. The web is not a tangible place but its spaces still present obstacles to some, and the...

Read in Quartz: https://apple.news/ABbb3kb-aQzS-mp9W7EzOZw

_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv

Virus-free. www.avast.com

_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv

Come on Jim. MY initial concern and comments raised a valid concern. Staff has responded to and is looking into this complex question. The fact is, you comments notwithstanding,Mr. Spinella IS a highly regarded attorney familiar with Connecticut and Federal law regarding Connecticut Non-Stock Corporations.For reasons known only to you, you have taken pains to find fault with Mr. Spinella and prior Connecticut Counsel. Are you sure the memorandum opinion wasn’t requested? Just because the EC may not have requested the opinion doesn’t mean it wasn’t requested. After all, ARRL does have senior management responsible for administration of the organization. My point was simple; rather than addressing policy issues and leaving administration to management, some Board members want to micromanage the organization. As a former attorney, I understand the urge to rely upon ones’ background and second guess retained counsel. Though I note that approach isn’t being taken with Mr. Siddall, who still hasn’t submitted statements for work in April, May or June. In the 22 years I have been a member of the ARRL Board, the tendency of Board Members to delve into managing the organization, rather than providing policy direction, has always been present. However, the tendency to micromanage and and for that matter manage the organization has never been greater than in the past seven months. This Board has some very capable members with good background and ideas. There is the potential to use that talent to address the significant challenges facing Amateur Radio over the next 5 to 15 years, if that talent is directed to addressing those challenges, rather than trying to run the organization. The good news for you is that in five months re months I won't have access to ODV. 73, Jay, 0QB Sent from my iPad

On Aug 7, 2019, at 6:52 PM, James Tiemstra <k6jat@comcast.net> wrote:

Really, Jay, like what? What we don't need is petty and unnecessary needling of Directors and Vice Directors. (No wonder people have shied away from using ODV.) Access IS important to our membership and our clubs, as well as the avoidance of potential liability for not being pro-active. It is a good thing to have expertise on our Board.

Furthermore, I have little confidence that our interests are being protected by "well regarded" CT counsel*, who submitted a memorandum opinion to the Board that wasn't requested, and sat in our meeting for two days without contributing a thing. The only time he was asked a question, we all had to wait while he called his boss for an answer that we already knew.

________________

* BTW, the 40 under 40 accolade is commonly understood to be nothing more than a means to create an advertising pitch to the uninformed. The recipients are typically selected after being promoted by the members of their own large firms.

Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT

Pacific Division Director

<mime-attachment.png>

...

On August 7, 2019 at 12:58 PM John Bellows <jbellows@skypoint.com> wrote:

Disclaimers notwithstanding, the comments to ODV from a licensed attorney, Board Member and self-identified Volunteer Counsel sure sound like legal opinions, if not legal advice, particularly when prior statements refer to experience in the particular area of the law.

Having raised the concern, being advised staff is aware of the concern and our well regarded Connecticut Counsel is looking into this evolving issue, periodic review of progress is certainly appropriate. That said, perhaps it appropriate to address some of the issues of more direct concern to our members.

73, Jay, K0QB

Sent from my iPad

...

On Aug 7, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:

Fred:

I disagree that a club house is needed as a public facility. Club meetings maybe, but it is no safe harbor just because there is no club station or owned property. I would not rest on that if this all goes the wrong way.

This is not legal advice as we have not undertaken legal representation of you or your radio club. Your local lawyer is welcomed to consider my comments but may come to a different conclusion after studying the facts and applying local law and customs. We have not studied your matter and will not do so unless a written, formal undertaking of representation is issued by our office.

Bob Famiglio, K3RF, 610-359-7300

ARRL Atlantic Division Volunteer Counsel

www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF

From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Fred Hopengarten Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:44 AM To: dale.wms1@frontier.com; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; 'John Robert Stratton' <N5AUS@n5aus.com> Subject: [arrl-odv:28534] Re: Fwd: Quartz: Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court - ADA Website Case

If the ARRL-affiliated club maintains a “public facility” (clubhouse?) and Domino’s LOSES, all ARRL club websites must be ADA-compliant. No club house, no problem.

You, Dale, are not my client and this is not legal advice.

Fred Hopengarten, Esq. K1VR

Six Willarch Road

Lincoln, MA 01773

781.259.0088, k1vr@arrl.org

New England Director

<image001.png>

Serving ME, NH, VT, MA, RI and CT

From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of Dale Williams Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:29 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org; John Robert Stratton Subject: [arrl-odv:28533] Re: Fwd: Quartz: Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court - ADA Website Case

John,

I must ask the question: What are the implications for every ARRL Affiliated Club that maintains a web site?

73

Dale WA8EFK

On 8/7/2019 10:54 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote:

ADA for websites is in the news again. See article.

_______________________________________

John Robert Stratton

N5AUS

Director West Gulf Division

Office: 512-445-6262

Cell: 512-426-2028

P.O. Box 2232

Austin, Texas 78768-2232

_______________________________________

Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court You might imagine that the internet has made life easier for people with disabilities, who can now access the same conveniences as everyone else without having to go to physical locations. However, that is not necessarily the case. The web is not a tangible place but its spaces still present obstacles to some, and the...

Read in Quartz: https://apple.news/ABbb3kb-aQzS-mp9W7EzOZw

_______________________________________________

arrl-odv mailing list

arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org

https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv

Virus-free. www.avast.com

_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv

...

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Dale     As the  article points out, the law is in a state of flux.     If Domino's loses, the situation will become a major problem for all entities with a public engagement who maintain a website.     The law needs to be amended and clarified. Congress can't agree on which bathroom should be used, so there is no current light at the end of the tunnel.     Direct answer: there is an uncertain potential risk for the clubs until the law is clarified. Since the clubs do not have deep financial pockets and since arguably the law is not intended to apply to private membership organizations, they are on safer ground. ADA lawsuits are about money — not accommodation — money; everything else is lipstick on a pig. So, those at risk are those with money and/or insurance.      My civil procedure professor (/a man who became rich suing railroads/) said you only need one of two things for a successful lawsuit: either a client with money or a defendant with money.  Since these ADA suits are usually contingent fee cases, it is the second prong that controls: a defendant with money. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office:512-445-6262 Cell:512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *_______________________________________*** ** On 8/7/19 10:29 AM, Dale Williams wrote:

John,

I must ask the question:  What are the implications for every ARRL Affiliated Club that maintains a web site?

73

Dale WA8EFK

On 8/7/2019 10:54 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote:

...

ADA for websites is in the news again. See article.

_______________________________________

John Robert Stratton

N5AUS

Director

West Gulf Division

Office:512-445-6262

Cell:512-426-2028

P.O. Box 2232

Austin, Texas 78768-2232

*_______________________________________***

*Domino’s Pizza delivers a game-changing case to the Supreme Court * You might imagine that the internet has made life easier for people with disabilities, who can now access the same conveniences as everyone else without having to go to physical locations. However, that is not necessarily the case. The web is not a tangible place but its spaces still present obstacles to some, and the...

Read in Quartz: https://apple.news/ABbb3kb-aQzS-mp9W7EzOZw

_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv