[arrl-odv:31177] FW: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network
The board may recall a few weeks ago I relayed some concerns EPA section members, who are VEs, had about helping certain groups get licensed. Some here pointed out it may not be our call as to what is business use and what is not, concerning amateur radio. That may be right or at least reasonable minds may differ as to whether intended use by non-profit groups for operations is considered business or improper use of our spectrum. The use by the oath keepers may be little different than a big radio club. Below I forward some follow up. The video presentation by the Oath Keepers is interesting. I make no judgement, and many people would suggest the referenced group in the video are mostly honorable folks – I think that may be right. But my concern might be use of our spectrum for other than traditional amateur radio operations, even if licensed and even if entirely non-profit. Some on this board responded privately to me last time I raised this and observed similar interest by prepper or other groups in getting a large group licensed only to not pursue any licensing after they were shown the systems and radios available. An analogy which might be useful to consider is if the Red Cross used its licensed operators to run regular non-profit operations over the amateur bands. Sometimes they border on that in my area. Is it helpful to our long-term health as a radio service? The video is interesting as they suggest use of even certain public safety radio frequencies is allowed during emergency operations by non-law enforcement groups to coordinate with police or other emergency responders. The applicable FCC rules, part 90 and others, are a bit more complicated than that of course. Just an FYI. I don’t know there is much more to be discussed about this, yet, nor is there anything we might do. If this type of use becomes more popular in a few years, well. . . But I thought this might be of interest. I hope I am wrong, but such use may be a problem a few years from now. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: melody@mars73.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:52 AM To: K3RF Bob Famiglio <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Subject: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network Hi Bob, I have a Google Alert on Amateur Radio and yesterday I saw a new entry that includes a video I found disturbing: The Oathkeepers have chosen Amateur Radio frequencies to be their communication method for emergency communication. This video was created in AZ with the goal to share it with members in other states. I believe this has to do with their activities planned in and around the general election. My club was contacted twice this year by someone claiming to be a regional coordinator for the Oathkeepers. His name is Chuck Ortwein and he requested license training with a focus on the creation of a communication network and a license exam session for thirty people. We declined the request — we are not meeting or offering exams due to the pandemic. I didn’t think too much of it until I saw the recent threats for a “civil war” made by their national leader which led to the groups’s recent ban on Twitter and Facebook. It’s my understanding that they will soon receive training and an exam session by another person or group in SE PA. There are many hams who like and defend this group. Many of their members are former law enforcement and military personnel. But their planned use of Amateur Radio frequencies as a tool for their group emergency communications is very concerning to me. This usage is not in the spirit of Amateur Radio. If you think it is appropriate I’d appreciate your sharing this with others in the ARRL so they can be made aware of this effort. Yesterday I shared it with the EPA Section Mgr. Page link: https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/10/11/oath-keepers-4-the-communicat... YouTube video link: https://youtu.be/DoYpn77H6NA (26:45 minutes) Thank you. 73 Melody, KB3SJR Melody Bowers 484-363-9219 Melody@mars73.com <mailto:Melody@mars73.com> Melody
At least they’re licensed, I hope? It’s guys like this I’m more worried about: https://youtu.be/LA54EfcEOv4 Off roaders are abandoning CB and getting baofengs to use off road. Most of them without a license and most without even caring what frequency they are on. Note in the comments that the video creator is not interested in whether or not this is legal. The fcc is doing what exactly? They’re worried that a few hams on 3GHz are going to interfere with 5G... Ria N2RJ On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 2:40 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
The board may recall a few weeks ago I relayed some concerns EPA section members, who are VEs, had about helping certain groups get licensed. Some here pointed out it may not be our call as to what is business use and what is not, concerning amateur radio. That may be right or at least reasonable minds may differ as to whether intended use by non-profit groups for operations is considered business or improper use of our spectrum. The use by the oath keepers may be little different than a big radio club.
Below I forward some follow up. The video presentation by the Oath Keepers is interesting. I make no judgement, and many people would suggest the referenced group in the video are mostly honorable folks – I think that may be right. But my concern might be use of our spectrum for other than traditional amateur radio operations, even if licensed and even if entirely non-profit. Some on this board responded privately to me last time I raised this and observed similar interest by prepper or other groups in getting a large group licensed only to not pursue any licensing after they were shown the systems and radios available.
An analogy which might be useful to consider is if the Red Cross used its licensed operators to run regular non-profit operations over the amateur bands. Sometimes they border on that in my area. Is it helpful to our long-term health as a radio service? The video is interesting as they suggest use of even certain public safety radio frequencies is allowed during emergency operations by non-law enforcement groups to coordinate with police or other emergency responders. The applicable FCC rules, part 90 and others, are a bit more complicated than that of course.
Just an FYI. I don’t know there is much more to be discussed about this, yet, nor is there anything we might do. If this type of use becomes more popular in a few years, well. . . But I thought this might be of interest. I hope I am wrong, but such use may be a problem a few years from now.
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* melody@mars73.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:52 AM *To:* K3RF Bob Famiglio <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> *Subject:* *Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network*
Hi Bob,
I have a Google Alert on Amateur Radio and *yesterday I saw a new entry that includes a video I found disturbing*: The Oathkeepers have chosen Amateur Radio frequencies to be their communication method for emergency communication. This video was created in AZ with the goal to share it with members in other states. I believe this has to do with their activities planned in and around the general election.
My club was contacted twice this year by someone claiming to be a regional coordinator for the Oathkeepers. His name is Chuck Ortwein and he requested license training with a focus on the creation of a communication network and a license exam session for thirty people. We declined the request — we are not meeting or offering exams due to the pandemic. I didn’t think too much of it until I saw the recent threats for a “civil war” made by their national leader which led to the groups’s recent ban on Twitter and Facebook. It’s my understanding that they will soon receive training and an exam session by another person or group in SE PA.
There are many hams who like and defend this group. Many of their members are former law enforcement and military personnel. But their planned use of Amateur Radio frequencies as a tool for their group emergency communications is very concerning to me. This usage is not in the spirit of Amateur Radio.
*If you think it is appropriate I’d appreciate your sharing this with others in the ARRL so they can be made aware of this effort.* Yesterday I shared it with the EPA Section Mgr.
Page link: https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/10/11/oath-keepers-4-the-communicat...
YouTube video link: https://youtu.be/DoYpn77H6NA
(26:45 minutes)
Thank you.
73
Melody, KB3SJR
Melody Bowers
484-363-9219
Melody@mars73.com
Melody
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
"At least they’re licensed, I hope?” Some are but do not use call signs, many are not. I wrote about pirates who are preppers using our hardened, multi-state repeater systems, N3KZ, (www.N3KZ.com) which cover much of the mountainous areas in PA which has little cell coverage. Many do not have call signs but do their “radio check” late at night among each other or in the wee hours. This has been particularly problematic in the last year or three. Bob K3RF From: rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 2:53 PM To: Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:31177] FW: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network At least they’re licensed, I hope? It’s guys like this I’m more worried about: https://youtu.be/LA54EfcEOv4 Off roaders are abandoning CB and getting baofengs to use off road. Most of them without a license and most without even caring what frequency they are on. Note in the comments that the video creator is not interested in whether or not this is legal. The fcc is doing what exactly? They’re worried that a few hams on 3GHz are going to interfere with 5G... Ria N2RJ On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 2:40 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > wrote: The board may recall a few weeks ago I relayed some concerns EPA section members, who are VEs, had about helping certain groups get licensed. Some here pointed out it may not be our call as to what is business use and what is not, concerning amateur radio. That may be right or at least reasonable minds may differ as to whether intended use by non-profit groups for operations is considered business or improper use of our spectrum. The use by the oath keepers may be little different than a big radio club. Below I forward some follow up. The video presentation by the Oath Keepers is interesting. I make no judgement, and many people would suggest the referenced group in the video are mostly honorable folks – I think that may be right. But my concern might be use of our spectrum for other than traditional amateur radio operations, even if licensed and even if entirely non-profit. Some on this board responded privately to me last time I raised this and observed similar interest by prepper or other groups in getting a large group licensed only to not pursue any licensing after they were shown the systems and radios available. An analogy which might be useful to consider is if the Red Cross used its licensed operators to run regular non-profit operations over the amateur bands. Sometimes they border on that in my area. Is it helpful to our long-term health as a radio service? The video is interesting as they suggest use of even certain public safety radio frequencies is allowed during emergency operations by non-law enforcement groups to coordinate with police or other emergency responders. The applicable FCC rules, part 90 and others, are a bit more complicated than that of course. Just an FYI. I don’t know there is much more to be discussed about this, yet, nor is there anything we might do. If this type of use becomes more popular in a few years, well. . . But I thought this might be of interest. I hope I am wrong, but such use may be a problem a few years from now. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: melody@mars73.com <mailto:melody@mars73.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:52 AM To: K3RF Bob Famiglio <RBFamiglio@verizon.net <mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net> > Subject: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network Hi Bob, I have a Google Alert on Amateur Radio and yesterday I saw a new entry that includes a video I found disturbing: The Oathkeepers have chosen Amateur Radio frequencies to be their communication method for emergency communication. This video was created in AZ with the goal to share it with members in other states. I believe this has to do with their activities planned in and around the general election. My club was contacted twice this year by someone claiming to be a regional coordinator for the Oathkeepers. His name is Chuck Ortwein and he requested license training with a focus on the creation of a communication network and a license exam session for thirty people. We declined the request — we are not meeting or offering exams due to the pandemic. I didn’t think too much of it until I saw the recent threats for a “civil war” made by their national leader which led to the groups’s recent ban on Twitter and Facebook. It’s my understanding that they will soon receive training and an exam session by another person or group in SE PA. There are many hams who like and defend this group. Many of their members are former law enforcement and military personnel. But their planned use of Amateur Radio frequencies as a tool for their group emergency communications is very concerning to me. This usage is not in the spirit of Amateur Radio. If you think it is appropriate I’d appreciate your sharing this with others in the ARRL so they can be made aware of this effort. Yesterday I shared it with the EPA Section Mgr. Page link: https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/10/11/oath-keepers-4-the-communicat... YouTube video link: https://youtu.be/DoYpn77H6NA (26:45 minutes) Thank you. 73 Melody, KB3SJR Melody Bowers 484-363-9219 Melody@mars73.com <mailto:Melody@mars73.com> Melody _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
This seems to be “a thing”. If Internet is available, apparently Zello is the choice, and it is used like a “walkie-talkie” in the manner of “ham radio”. Or so the below-linked program suggests. I wasn’t paying much attention at 7:30am this morning until “ham radio” came up at about 2 minutes into the program: …”a little bit of a fetishization of ham radio” caught my attention. At around 02:05 in this program: https://tinyurl.com/y4vnb99h 73, Dave K3ZJ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of "Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Reply-To: "Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:09 PM To: "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com> Cc: "arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org" <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:31180] Re: FW: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network "At least they’re licensed, I hope?” Some are but do not use call signs, many are not. I wrote about pirates who are preppers using our hardened, multi-state repeater systems, N3KZ, (www.N3KZ.com) which cover much of the mountainous areas in PA which has little cell coverage. Many do not have call signs but do their “radio check” late at night among each other or in the wee hours. This has been particularly problematic in the last year or three. Bob K3RF From: rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 2:53 PM To: Bob Famiglio, K3RF <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:31177] FW: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network At least they’re licensed, I hope? It’s guys like this I’m more worried about: https://youtu.be/LA54EfcEOv4 Off roaders are abandoning CB and getting baofengs to use off road. Most of them without a license and most without even caring what frequency they are on. Note in the comments that the video creator is not interested in whether or not this is legal. The fcc is doing what exactly? They’re worried that a few hams on 3GHz are going to interfere with 5G... Ria N2RJ On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 2:40 PM Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> wrote: The board may recall a few weeks ago I relayed some concerns EPA section members, who are VEs, had about helping certain groups get licensed. Some here pointed out it may not be our call as to what is business use and what is not, concerning amateur radio. That may be right or at least reasonable minds may differ as to whether intended use by non-profit groups for operations is considered business or improper use of our spectrum. The use by the oath keepers may be little different than a big radio club. Below I forward some follow up. The video presentation by the Oath Keepers is interesting. I make no judgement, and many people would suggest the referenced group in the video are mostly honorable folks – I think that may be right. But my concern might be use of our spectrum for other than traditional amateur radio operations, even if licensed and even if entirely non-profit. Some on this board responded privately to me last time I raised this and observed similar interest by prepper or other groups in getting a large group licensed only to not pursue any licensing after they were shown the systems and radios available. An analogy which might be useful to consider is if the Red Cross used its licensed operators to run regular non-profit operations over the amateur bands. Sometimes they border on that in my area. Is it helpful to our long-term health as a radio service? The video is interesting as they suggest use of even certain public safety radio frequencies is allowed during emergency operations by non-law enforcement groups to coordinate with police or other emergency responders. The applicable FCC rules, part 90 and others, are a bit more complicated than that of course. Just an FYI. I don’t know there is much more to be discussed about this, yet, nor is there anything we might do. If this type of use becomes more popular in a few years, well. . . But I thought this might be of interest. I hope I am wrong, but such use may be a problem a few years from now. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 [cid:image001.png@01D6A4A3.CA724800] www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF<http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> From: melody@mars73.com<mailto:melody@mars73.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:52 AM To: K3RF Bob Famiglio <RBFamiglio@verizon.net<mailto:RBFamiglio@verizon.net>> Subject: Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network Hi Bob, I have a Google Alert on Amateur Radio and yesterday I saw a new entry that includes a video I found disturbing: The Oathkeepers have chosen Amateur Radio frequencies to be their communication method for emergency communication. This video was created in AZ with the goal to share it with members in other states. I believe this has to do with their activities planned in and around the general election. My club was contacted twice this year by someone claiming to be a regional coordinator for the Oathkeepers. His name is Chuck Ortwein and he requested license training with a focus on the creation of a communication network and a license exam session for thirty people. We declined the request — we are not meeting or offering exams due to the pandemic. I didn’t think too much of it until I saw the recent threats for a “civil war” made by their national leader which led to the groups’s recent ban on Twitter and Facebook. It’s my understanding that they will soon receive training and an exam session by another person or group in SE PA. There are many hams who like and defend this group. Many of their members are former law enforcement and military personnel. But their planned use of Amateur Radio frequencies as a tool for their group emergency communications is very concerning to me. This usage is not in the spirit of Amateur Radio. If you think it is appropriate I’d appreciate your sharing this with others in the ARRL so they can be made aware of this effort. Yesterday I shared it with the EPA Section Mgr. Page link: https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/10/11/oath-keepers-4-the-communicat... YouTube video link: https://youtu.be/DoYpn77H6NA (26:45 minutes) Thank you. 73 Melody, KB3SJR Melody Bowers 484-363-9219 Melody@mars73.com<mailto:Melody@mars73.com> Melody _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Thanks for raising this issue, Bob.My biggest concern is, I think, the same as yours.How does this reflect on amateur radio and how will it impact us as we argue our public worth when we try to defend frequencies, tower permits, etc.The second concern is whether this use is appropriate for amateur radio.The analogy with the Red Cross is weak since the Red Cross is a nationally chartered organization recognized by the U.S. government.The Red Cross also uses amateur radio to facilitate action during an emergency event as opposed to providing a communications backbone to operate the organization. Like I suspect most of us, I would hate to have the world tune into an Oathkeeper HF net. If we were to decide that Oathkeeper’s use of amateur radio is not appropriate, what are the tools available to us to dissuade them?I doubt that the FCC would act, but it might.Do we have a legal basis (good question for our attorney)?And would any PR that resulted from our actions be positive or negative? More questions than answers, but it would be great if we can get a good understanding of our legal position. 73, Art K0AIZ Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ ARRL Midwest Division Vice Director ARRL Midwest Division Director-elect On 10/13/2020 1:40 PM, Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv wrote:
The board may recall a few weeks ago I relayed some concerns EPA section members, who are VEs, had about helping certain groups get licensed. Some here pointed out it may not be our call as to what is business use and what is not, concerning amateur radio. That may be right or at least reasonable minds may differ as to whether intended use by non-profit groups for operations is considered business or improper use of our spectrum. The use by the oath keepers may be little different than a big radio club.
Below I forward some follow up. The video presentation by the Oath Keepers is interesting. I make no judgement, and many people would suggest the referenced group in the video are mostly honorable folks – I think that may be right. But my concern might be use of our spectrum for other than traditional amateur radio operations, even if licensed and even if entirely non-profit. Some on this board responded privately to me last time I raised this and observed similar interest by prepper or other groups in getting a large group licensed only to not pursue any licensing after they were shown the systems and radios available.
An analogy which might be useful to consider is if the Red Cross used its licensed operators to run regular non-profit operations over the amateur bands. Sometimes they border on that in my area. Is it helpful to our long-term health as a radio service? The video is interesting as they suggest use of even certain public safety radio frequencies is allowed during emergency operations by non-law enforcement groups to coordinate with police or other emergency responders. The applicable FCC rules, part 90 and others, are a bit more complicated than that of course.
Just an FYI. I don’t know there is much more to be discussed about this, yet, nor is there anything we might do. If this type of use becomes more popular in a few years, well. . . But I thought this might be of interest. I hope I am wrong, but such use may be a problem a few years from now.
*Bob Famiglio, K3RF*
*Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division*
*610-359-7300*
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
*From:* melody@mars73.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:52 AM *To:* K3RF Bob Famiglio <RBFamiglio@verizon.net> *Subject:* /Amateur Radio frequencies being used by Oathkeepers network/
Hi Bob,
I have a Google Alert on Amateur Radio and *yesterday I saw a new entry that includes a video I found disturbing*: The Oathkeepers have chosen Amateur Radio frequencies to be their communication method for emergency communication. This video was created in AZ with the goal to share it with members in other states. I believe this has to do with their activities planned in and around the general election.
My club was contacted twice this year by someone claiming to be a regional coordinator for the Oathkeepers. His name is Chuck Ortwein and he requested license training with a focus on the creation of a communication network and a license exam session for thirty people. We declined the request — we are not meeting or offering exams due to the pandemic. I didn’t think too much of it until I saw the recent threats for a “civil war” made by their national leader which led to the groups’s recent ban on Twitter and Facebook. It’s my understanding that they will soon receive training and an exam session by another person or group in SE PA.
There are many hams who like and defend this group. Many of their members are former law enforcement and military personnel. But their planned use of Amateur Radio frequencies as a tool for their group emergency communications is very concerning to me. This usage is not in the spirit of Amateur Radio.
*If you think it is appropriate I’d appreciate your sharing this with others in the ARRL so they can be made aware of this effort.* Yesterday I shared it with the EPA Section Mgr.
Page link: https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/10/11/oath-keepers-4-the-communicat... <https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/10/11/oath-keepers-4-the-communications-team/>
YouTube video link: https://youtu.be/DoYpn77H6NA <https://youtu.be/DoYpn77H6NA>
(26:45 minutes)
Thank you.
73
Melody, KB3SJR
Melody Bowers
484-363-9219
Melody@mars73.com <mailto:Melody@mars73.com>
Melody
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (4)
-
Arthur I. Zygielbaum, K0AIZ -
Bob Famiglio, K3RF -
david davidsiddall-law.com -
rjairam＠gmail.com