Jim, the IARU rule is not applicable. Scarborough came in under rule Section II.2.a. back then (now 2.b.i) but subsequently the definition of island was changed under Section 2, Definitions, to require a size of 100 meters for islands, rocks, and reefs. 73,Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> To: 'Michael Ritz' <w7vo@comcast.net>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 10:27 am Subject: [arrl-odv:34379] Re: Movie for Thursday Night, after the "after-dinner" meeting <!--#yiv5472107795 filtered {}#yiv5472107795 filtered {}#yiv5472107795 filtered {}#yiv5472107795 p.yiv5472107795MsoNormal, #yiv5472107795 li.yiv5472107795MsoNormal, #yiv5472107795 div.yiv5472107795MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv5472107795 span.yiv5472107795EmailStyle18 {font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv5472107795 .yiv5472107795MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5472107795 filtered {}#yiv5472107795 div.yiv5472107795WordSection1 {}-->Mike,  First of all, excellent idea!  I would suggest that we ask IVP Rod Stafford to offer some additional history from the ARRL DXCC point of view.  When I chaired the PSC and Dave Sumner retired, he dropped something in my lap that related to dropping the “IARU Rule”, which I’m told was added to the DXCC rules around the year 2000 to prevent “Good grief, another reef” on the DXCC list.  I remember reading board minutes of that era with reference to Rod and spoke with Rod several times during my research.  After completing my research, speaking with many fellow DXCC members, and seeking advice from my DXAC rep, my answer was “absolutely not!”  The PSC had the same conclusion.  I don’t want to leave out President Rick on this, as he was around during this time as well, although I do not know in what capacity.    ‘73 de Jim N2ZZDirector – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West VirginiaARRL – the national association for Amateur RadioFacebook Page: ARRL Roanoke DivisionWebsite: www.arrl-roanoke.org                From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Michael Ritz Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 1:47 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:34378] Movie for Thursday Night, after the "after-dinner" meeting  I am bringing an original DVD copy of the 9V1YC professionally produced "BS7H, Scarborough Reef DXpedition" video for those that would like to see it on Thursday evening, after our "after-dinner" meeting. Our very own Bob Vallio, W6RGG was the DXpedition leader for this 2007 trip, one of the most controversial DXpeditions ever accomplished. It discusses the controversies surrounding the ARRL's DXAC accepting of Scarborough as a DXCC entity as well. It's one of the best DXpedition videos made, in my book. It's about an hour long, much shorter than a full length feature film.  If we have time, we may also watch it at the end of the PSC meeting. It's a great DXCC rules history lesson for PSC members.   73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv

Well, the short version is that at one time the DXCC criteria provided that if a new “entity” had an IARU society that fact alone provided a basis for getting the new entity on the DXCC list. That might sound like an excellent idea but what would happen was a group of non-habitants of the new entity would create an amateur radio society where there really wasn’t much amateur radio activity to begin with. They would then apply for membership in IARU and when accepted would then argue that the new entity ought to be added to the DXCC list. So you wind up with “paper” IARU societies that really don’t exist or have any function except providing a reason to add the entity to the DXCC list. One might ask, why would the IARU allow membership of these paper societies. The proponents would generally argue that this would “prime the pump” of getting amateur radio kickstarted in this new area and would help amateur radio expand its influence, etc. Grand schemes were planned to help the locals really get involved in amateur radio. Of course, once the entity was on the list no one really cared about promoting amateur radio. Or, at least they never really took any action to follow through with the plans. So, if I recall correctly, I made a motion as IAVP to delete that criteria. The Board passed the motion and for quite some time that was not a basis for admitting a new entity to the DXCC list. A few years ago, some of the well known DXers wanted it added back as a criteria and got the criteria changed to its current wording which is: d) The entity has a separate IARU member society AND is included on the U.S. State Department Independent States in the World. I believe the impetus for adding back into the rules the “IARU society rule” was to allow Kosovo to be added. Because of the political situation I don’t believe Kosovo would qualify under any of the other existing criteria. With the passage of time, that has all been sorted out. And with the addition of the US Dept of State language I don’t think it is an issue these days. 73, Rod From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Date: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:27 AM To: 'Michael Ritz' <w7vo@comcast.net>, arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:34379] Re: Movie for Thursday Night, after the "after-dinner" meeting Mike, First of all, excellent idea! I would suggest that we ask IVP Rod Stafford to offer some additional history from the ARRL DXCC point of view. When I chaired the PSC and Dave Sumner retired, he dropped something in my lap that related to dropping the “IARU Rule”, which I’m told was added to the DXCC rules around the year 2000 to prevent “Good grief, another reef” on the DXCC list. I remember reading board minutes of that era with reference to Rod and spoke with Rod several times during my research. After completing my research, speaking with many fellow DXCC members, and seeking advice from my DXAC rep, my answer was “absolutely not!” The PSC had the same conclusion. I don’t want to leave out President Rick on this, as he was around during this time as well, although I do not know in what capacity. ‘73 de Jim N2ZZ Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia ARRL – the national association for Amateur Radio Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division Website: www.arrl-roanoke.org<http://www.arrl-roanoke.org/> [Text, logo Description automatically generated] From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Michael Ritz Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 1:47 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:34378] Movie for Thursday Night, after the "after-dinner" meeting I am bringing an original DVD copy of the 9V1YC professionally produced "BS7H, Scarborough Reef DXpedition" video for those that would like to see it on Thursday evening, after our "after-dinner" meeting. Our very own Bob Vallio, W6RGG was the DXpedition leader for this 2007 trip, one of the most controversial DXpeditions ever accomplished. It discusses the controversies surrounding the ARRL's DXAC accepting of Scarborough as a DXCC entity as well. It's one of the best DXpedition videos made, in my book. It's about an hour long, much shorter than a full length feature film. If we have time, we may also watch it at the end of the PSC meeting. It's a great DXCC rules history lesson for PSC members. 73; Mike W7VO

passing the torch to Adrian, KO8SCA. Good one! 73,Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) <n2rj@arrl.org> To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>; Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net> Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 10:55 am Subject: [arrl-odv:34383] Re: Movie for Thursday Night, after the "after-dinner" meeting I remember seeing this in 2008 or so when Martti visited us at NJDXA. Good film.  These days he's passing the torch to Adrian, KO8SCA. Ria From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 1:46:46 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:34378] Movie for Thursday Night, after the "after-dinner" meeting I am bringing an original DVD copy of the 9V1YC professionally produced "BS7H, Scarborough Reef DXpedition" video for those that would like to see it on Thursday evening, after our "after-dinner" meeting. Our very own Bob Vallio, W6RGG was the DXpedition leader for this 2007 trip, one of the most controversial DXpeditions ever accomplished. It discusses the controversies surrounding the ARRL's DXAC accepting of Scarborough as a DXCC entity as well. It's one of the best DXpedition videos made, in my book. It's about an hour long, much shorter than a full length feature film. If we have time, we may also watch it at the end of the PSC meeting. It's a great DXCC rules history lesson for PSC members.  73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv