[arrl-odv:21067] arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo
Dave, What group or governmental agency in Kosovo is (or might be) responsible to ask the ITU for a callsign block? Given the status of the folks operating from there, I would expect that this process would be underway but egos occasionally prevail among DXers - Duh! Of course, we will be the bad guys if the last few days of operation do not count for anything but that is life. ITU assignment of a prefix will allow those there or another group to activate the first DXpedition that complies to the DXCC rules and it is not the current group, we will hear about it! BTW, I have yet to worked the current operation and probably will not until the rules are met. But, I remember the 7O1YGF expedition which put me on the #1 Honor Roll status after nearly 10 years of waiting. 73 Jim K9JF James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372 James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372
Jim, Martti claims that DXCC recognition is not the objective of the current operation. I would have no compunctions about working Z60K now if you want to. I have. It will count for WPX and the CQ DX awards and Z6 will be a multiplier in CQWW. As for the ITU, the problem is that Kosovo is not a Member State of the ITU and cannot become a Member State until it either becomes a Member of the United Nations or applies directly to the ITU for membership and has its application approved by two-thirds of the Member States of the ITU. UN membership would be sufficient for DXCC purposes, it was in the case of South Sudan. There may be creative ways around this dilemma, but obviously there are more important telecommunications considerations than Amateur Radio such as a telephone country code -- and as far as I know that problem hasn't been resolved, either. The Telecommunications Regulatory Authority is the responsible agency. See http://www.art-ks.org/ Dave -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of jfenster@pacifier.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:00 AM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:21067] arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo Dave, What group or governmental agency in Kosovo is (or might be) responsible to ask the ITU for a callsign block? Given the status of the folks operating from there, I would expect that this process would be underway but egos occasionally prevail among DXers - Duh! Of course, we will be the bad guys if the last few days of operation do not count for anything but that is life. ITU assignment of a prefix will allow those there or another group to activate the first DXpedition that complies to the DXCC rules and it is not the current group, we will hear about it! BTW, I have yet to worked the current operation and probably will not until the rules are met. But, I remember the 7O1YGF expedition which put me on the #1 Honor Roll status after nearly 10 years of waiting. 73 Jim K9JF James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372 James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372 _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Below is a comment that appeared on a reflector; certain names were redacted and the author's signature deleted. The emphasis at the end of the quote is mine. G/uys, The Z60K situation is beginning to get interesting. The Serbians are madder than hornets over the Z60K operation. It seems that the UN won't admit Kosovo because although 90 countries have recognized it, Serbia, China and Russia have not; and China and Russia will veto any application of Kosovo to the UN. Similarly, the ITU can't really release a call block until the UN recognizes Kosovo- although E4 is an example of where a call block was released and there is no UN membership. The ARRL says that ITU call block and UN membership are the criteria for a new country. The Serbians quickly point out that these two conditions won't be met any time soon! Meanwhile the Serbians are apparently all over the place signing Z60K just to mess the whole operation up. I heard 2 stations signing Z60K at the same time on 17 CW this morning circa 13Z, and 3 stations signing Z60K on 20 CW at the same time. Meanwhile, as two of the 20 CW operators logged calls as Z60K on 14026, a Serbian ham kept sending "Kosovo is Serbia forever" on the same frequency over and over. According to Marti Lain [sic], who XXXXX spoke on the phone with a couple of hours ago, the club log entries for Z60K are up to date through 15Z September 18; the real Z60K guys know there are pirates about; and they suggest we all monitor club log to see if our contacts are real. . I contacted both of the 17 CW ops and one of the 20 CW operators this morning, but show up NIL on club log for those contacts! So apparently most of what we are now hearing are pirates!//_* No word from the ARRL on accepting Kosovo. What a mess.*_/ We should get ahead of this and be seen to be involved and aware. The League should issue a statement - on the website and perhaps by email - explaining to the membership what Dave has explained to the ODV. Dave, since you are our resident whiz kid on this, perhaps you should be the author of the piece. It should point out, as Dave does below, how current contacts may be used/counted and that the ARRL stands ready to add Kosovo to DXCC as soon as the conditions for being counted are met. It should explain the steps to approval. It probably shouldn't editorialize, but a recognition of the stumbling blocks to approval could be done without editorial comment. We should make clear the ARRL takes no sides in what is a nasty fight on the world stage between groups that hate each other (and have US constituencies) and major powers using the combatants for their own purposes in the Grand Game. The piece should repeat the ARRL's position that it welcomes all amateurs worldwide and we look forward to being able to add Kosovo to DXCC 73 *-----------------------------------------------------* ** John Robert Stratton N5AUS West Gulf Division Vice Director West Gulf Division Legislative Action Chair Office telephone: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 PO Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *-----------------------------------------------------* On 9/19/12 9:34 AM, Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ wrote:
Jim, Martti claims that DXCC recognition is not the objective of the current operation.
I would have no compunctions about working Z60K now if you want to. I have. It will count for WPX and the CQ DX awards and Z6 will be a multiplier in CQWW.
As for the ITU, the problem is that Kosovo is not a Member State of the ITU and cannot become a Member State until it either becomes a Member of the United Nations or applies directly to the ITU for membership and has its application approved by two-thirds of the Member States of the ITU. UN membership would be sufficient for DXCC purposes, it was in the case of South Sudan. There may be creative ways around this dilemma, but obviously there are more important telecommunications considerations than Amateur Radio such as a telephone country code -- and as far as I know that problem hasn't been resolved, either.
The Telecommunications Regulatory Authority is the responsible agency. See http://www.art-ks.org/
Dave
-----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of jfenster@pacifier.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:00 AM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:21067] arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo
Dave,
What group or governmental agency in Kosovo is (or might be) responsible to ask the ITU for a callsign block? Given the status of the folks operating from there, I would expect that this process would be underway but egos occasionally prevail among DXers - Duh! Of course, we will be the bad guys if the last few days of operation do not count for anything but that is life. ITU assignment of a prefix will allow those there or another group to activate the first DXpedition that complies to the DXCC rules and it is not the current group, we will hear about it!
BTW, I have yet to worked the current operation and probably will not until the rules are met. But, I remember the 7O1YGF expedition which put me on the #1 Honor Roll status after nearly 10 years of waiting.
73 Jim K9JF
James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372
James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
John, our feeling here is that it is best not to say anything official while the operation is still going on. Every DXer knows the meaning of WFWL: "Work 'em first, worry later." E4 is a special case - there are UN and ITU resolutions covering Palestine. Dave From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of JRS Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:22 AM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:21069] Re: arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo Below is a comment that appeared on a reflector; certain names were redacted and the author's signature deleted. The emphasis at the end of the quote is mine. Guys, The Z60K situation is beginning to get interesting. The Serbians are madder than hornets over the Z60K operation. It seems that the UN won't admit Kosovo because although 90 countries have recognized it, Serbia, China and Russia have not; and China and Russia will veto any application of Kosovo to the UN. Similarly, the ITU can't really release a call block until the UN recognizes Kosovo- although E4 is an example of where a call block was released and there is no UN membership. The ARRL says that ITU call block and UN membership are the criteria for a new country. The Serbians quickly point out that these two conditions won't be met any time soon! Meanwhile the Serbians are apparently all over the place signing Z60K just to mess the whole operation up. I heard 2 stations signing Z60K at the same time on 17 CW this morning circa 13Z, and 3 stations signing Z60K on 20 CW at the same time. Meanwhile, as two of the 20 CW operators logged calls as Z60K on 14026, a Serbian ham kept sending "Kosovo is Serbia forever" on the same frequency over and over. According to Marti Lain [sic], who XXXXX spoke on the phone with a couple of hours ago, the club log entries for Z60K are up to date through 15Z September 18; the real Z60K guys know there are pirates about; and they suggest we all monitor club log to see if our contacts are real. . I contacted both of the 17 CW ops and one of the 20 CW operators this morning, but show up NIL on club log for those contacts! So apparently most of what we are now hearing are pirates! No word from the ARRL on accepting Kosovo. What a mess. We should get ahead of this and be seen to be involved and aware. The League should issue a statement - on the website and perhaps by email - explaining to the membership what Dave has explained to the ODV. Dave, since you are our resident whiz kid on this, perhaps you should be the author of the piece. It should point out, as Dave does below, how current contacts may be used/counted and that the ARRL stands ready to add Kosovo to DXCC as soon as the conditions for being counted are met. It should explain the steps to approval. It probably shouldn't editorialize, but a recognition of the stumbling blocks to approval could be done without editorial comment. We should make clear the ARRL takes no sides in what is a nasty fight on the world stage between groups that hate each other (and have US constituencies) and major powers using the combatants for their own purposes in the Grand Game. The piece should repeat the ARRL's position that it welcomes all amateurs worldwide and we look forward to being able to add Kosovo to DXCC 73 ----------------------------------------------------- John Robert Stratton N5AUS West Gulf Division Vice Director West Gulf Division Legislative Action Chair Office telephone: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 PO Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 ----------------------------------------------------- On 9/19/12 9:34 AM, Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ wrote: Jim, Martti claims that DXCC recognition is not the objective of the current operation. I would have no compunctions about working Z60K now if you want to. I have. It will count for WPX and the CQ DX awards and Z6 will be a multiplier in CQWW. As for the ITU, the problem is that Kosovo is not a Member State of the ITU and cannot become a Member State until it either becomes a Member of the United Nations or applies directly to the ITU for membership and has its application approved by two-thirds of the Member States of the ITU. UN membership would be sufficient for DXCC purposes, it was in the case of South Sudan. There may be creative ways around this dilemma, but obviously there are more important telecommunications considerations than Amateur Radio such as a telephone country code -- and as far as I know that problem hasn't been resolved, either. The Telecommunications Regulatory Authority is the responsible agency. See http://www.art-ks.org/ Dave -----Original Message----- From: arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of jfenster@pacifier.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:00 AM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:21067] arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo Dave, What group or governmental agency in Kosovo is (or might be) responsible to ask the ITU for a callsign block? Given the status of the folks operating from there, I would expect that this process would be underway but egos occasionally prevail among DXers - Duh! Of course, we will be the bad guys if the last few days of operation do not count for anything but that is life. ITU assignment of a prefix will allow those there or another group to activate the first DXpedition that complies to the DXCC rules and it is not the current group, we will hear about it! BTW, I have yet to worked the current operation and probably will not until the rules are met. But, I remember the 7O1YGF expedition which put me on the #1 Honor Roll status after nearly 10 years of waiting. 73 Jim K9JF James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372 James E. Fenstermaker K9JF Director, Northwestern Division American Radio Relay League (206) 930-9372 _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I am forcefully reminded of the Parable Of The Lost Talents. 73 *-----------------------------------------------------* ** John Robert Stratton N5AUS West Gulf Division Vice Director West Gulf Division Legislative Action Chair Office telephone: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 PO Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *----------------------------------------------------- * On 9/19/12 4:00 PM, Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ wrote:
John, our feeling here is that it is best not to say anything official while the operation is still going on. Every DXer knows the meaning of WFWL: "Work 'em first, worry later."
E4 is a special case -- there are UN and ITU resolutions covering Palestine.
Dave
*From:*arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] *On Behalf Of *JRS *Sent:* Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:22 AM *To:* arrl-odv *Subject:* [arrl-odv:21069] Re: arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo
Below is a comment that appeared on a reflector; certain names were redacted and the author's signature deleted. The emphasis at the end of the quote is mine.
G/uys,/ / / /The Z60K situation is beginning to get interesting. The Serbians are madder than hornets over the Z60K operation. It seems that the UN won't admit Kosovo because although 90 countries have recognized it, Serbia, China and Russia have not; and China and Russia will veto any application of Kosovo to the UN. Similarly, the ITU can't really release a call block until the UN recognizes Kosovo- although E4 is an example of where a call block was released and there is no UN membership. The ARRL says that ITU call block and UN membership are the criteria for a new country. The Serbians quickly point out that these two conditions won't be met any time soon!/ / / /Meanwhile the Serbians are apparently all over the place signing Z60K just to mess the whole operation up. I heard 2 stations signing Z60K at the same time on 17 CW this morning circa 13Z, and 3 stations signing Z60K on 20 CW at the same time. Meanwhile, as two of the 20 CW operators logged calls as Z60K on 14026, a Serbian ham kept sending "Kosovo is Serbia forever" on the same frequency over and over./ / / /According to Marti Lain [sic], who XXXXX spoke on the phone with a couple of hours ago, the club log entries for Z60K are up to date through 15Z September 18; the real Z60K guys know there are pirates about; and they suggest we all monitor club log to see if our contacts are real. . I contacted both of the 17 CW ops and one of the 20 CW operators this morning, but show up NIL on club log for those contacts! So apparently most of what we are now hearing are pirates!*_ No word from the ARRL on accepting Kosovo. What a mess._*/
We should get ahead of this and be seen to be involved and aware.
The League should issue a statement - on the website and perhaps by email - explaining to the membership what Dave has explained to the ODV. Dave, since you are our resident whiz kid on this, perhaps you should be the author of the piece.
It should point out, as Dave does below, how current contacts may be used/counted and that the ARRL stands ready to add Kosovo to DXCC as soon as the conditions for being counted are met. It should explain the steps to approval. It probably shouldn't editorialize, but a recognition of the stumbling blocks to approval could be done without editorial comment.
We should make clear the ARRL takes no sides in what is a nasty fight on the world stage between groups that hate each other (and have US constituencies) and major powers using the combatants for their own purposes in the Grand Game. The piece should repeat the ARRL's position that it welcomes all amateurs worldwide and we look forward to being able to add Kosovo to DXCC
73
*-----------------------------------------------------*
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Description: cid:part1.01090709.05040505@hamradio.us.com
West Gulf Division
Vice Director
West Gulf Division
Legislative Action Chair
Office telephone: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 PO Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*-----------------------------------------------------*
On 9/19/12 9:34 AM, Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ wrote:
Jim, Martti claims that DXCC recognition is not the objective of the
current operation.
I would have no compunctions about working Z60K now if you want to. I
have. It will count for WPX and the CQ DX awards and Z6 will be a
multiplier in CQWW.
As for the ITU, the problem is that Kosovo is not a Member State of the
ITU and cannot become a Member State until it either becomes a Member of
the United Nations or applies directly to the ITU for membership and has
its application approved by two-thirds of the Member States of the ITU.
UN membership would be sufficient for DXCC purposes, it was in the case
of South Sudan. There may be creative ways around this dilemma, but
obviously there are more important telecommunications considerations
than Amateur Radio such as a telephone country code -- and as far as I
know that problem hasn't been resolved, either.
The Telecommunications Regulatory Authority is the responsible agency.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>
[mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of
jfenster@pacifier.com <mailto:jfenster@pacifier.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:00 AM
To: arrl-odv
Subject: [arrl-odv:21067] arrl-odv:21066] Re: Kosovo
Dave,
What group or governmental agency in Kosovo is (or might be) responsible
to ask the ITU for a callsign block? Given the status of the folks
operating from there, I would expect that this process would be underway
but egos occasionally prevail among DXers - Duh! Of course, we will be
the bad guys if the last few days of operation do not count for anything
but that is life. ITU assignment of a prefix will allow those there or
another group to activate the first DXpedition that complies to the DXCC
rules and it is not the current group, we will hear about it!
BTW, I have yet to worked the current operation and probably will not
until the rules are met. But, I remember the 7O1YGF expedition which
put
me on the #1 Honor Roll status after nearly 10 years of waiting.
73
Jim K9JF
James E. Fenstermaker K9JF
Director, Northwestern Division
American Radio Relay League
(206) 930-9372
James E. Fenstermaker K9JF
Director, Northwestern Division
American Radio Relay League
(206) 930-9372
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________
arrl-odv mailing list
arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>
http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org http://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (3)
-
jfenster＠pacifier.com -
JRS -
Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ