[arrl-odv:33189] US Domestic Migration
All See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South. https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021 https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi... This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment. The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south." _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office:512-445-6262 Cell:512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *_______________________________________***
John, Very interesting. But does not correlate with economic growth: https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state In any case statistics are fun. Have I told you about the New York Metropolitan Art Museum? They installed counting turnstiles to keep track of people entering the building. Every year there was an increase in the number of people entering the building. That led to a strong argument to ask the city for a budget increase. One year there was a precipitous drop in the number of visitors. In investigating the matter, it was discovered that at the start of that year, a small building with restrooms was built in the park outside the museum. Have a wonderful New Year. Looking forward to seeing you in Hartford. Art On 12/31/2021 5:32 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote:
All
See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South.
https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021
https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi...
This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment.
The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south."
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office:512-445-6262
Cell:512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________***
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Art With respect, reality crushes lagging and non-correlative data every time. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office:512-445-6262 Cell:512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 *_______________________________________*** ** On 12/31/21 11:32 AM, Arthur I. Zygielbaum wrote:
John,
Very interesting. But does not correlate with economic growth:
https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state
In any case statistics are fun. Have I told you about the New York Metropolitan Art Museum? They installed counting turnstiles to keep track of people entering the building. Every year there was an increase in the number of people entering the building. That led to a strong argument to ask the city for a budget increase. One year there was a precipitous drop in the number of visitors. In investigating the matter, it was discovered that at the start of that year, a small building with restrooms was built in the park outside the museum.
Have a wonderful New Year. Looking forward to seeing you in Hartford.
Art
On 12/31/2021 5:32 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote:
All
See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South.
https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021
https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi...
This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment.
The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south."
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office:512-445-6262
Cell:512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________***
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I appreciate Ria's response. I think she is right on. And as to reality, remember what Lily Tomlin said, "What is reality? Nothing but a collective hunch." Your point, nonetheless, is an important view. I just don't think the cost/benefit case can be easily and convincingly made. But I'm willing to listen. Enough of this heady subject for now. (And perhaps to one of Ria's points) I'm getting my tractor with its snow blower ready for what might be our first real snow. Forecast is for up to 8 inches tomorrow. 73, Art On 12/31/2021 11:44 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote:
Art
With respect, reality crushes lagging and non-correlative data every time.
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office:512-445-6262
Cell:512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________***
** On 12/31/21 11:32 AM, Arthur I. Zygielbaum wrote:
John,
Very interesting. But does not correlate with economic growth:
https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state
In any case statistics are fun. Have I told you about the New York Metropolitan Art Museum? They installed counting turnstiles to keep track of people entering the building. Every year there was an increase in the number of people entering the building. That led to a strong argument to ask the city for a budget increase. One year there was a precipitous drop in the number of visitors. In investigating the matter, it was discovered that at the start of that year, a small building with restrooms was built in the park outside the museum.
Have a wonderful New Year. Looking forward to seeing you in Hartford.
Art
On 12/31/2021 5:32 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote:
All
See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South.
https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021
https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi...
This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment.
The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south."
_______________________________________
John Robert Stratton
N5AUS
Director
West Gulf Division
Office:512-445-6262
Cell:512-426-2028
P.O. Box 2232
Austin, Texas 78768-2232
*_______________________________________***
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
This has been an interesting discussion. Yes, there is definitely a lot of Southern movement going on. A local newspaper commented that the population of South Carolina increased by 500,000 over the last ten years. Interestingly, growth is not just from the North. There seems to be movement here also from Florida, perhaps due to hurricanes, cost of living, or some other factor. I beat the rush by moving here from Upstate NY in 1982. A side effect of the Covid crisis was the hardening of remote systems and processes that enables remote workflow. Location is not as important as it once was. I do agree with Ria that ARRL and W1AW over 100 year history is based in Connecticut. If it is moved, it would have to be brick by brick, as Ria points out with the Diamond Terrace. However, I remember rumblings about wanting to move ARRL to another location when I was on the board previously, and I expect it to continue. Art, my best with your expected snow. My older son, when he was five years old brought me the Sears wish catalog. He opened the catalog to the inside front page which was an advertisement for a snow blower. He asked me “what is this, Papa?” My answer? “For as long as you live with me, that’s the closest you’ll ever get to one!”. I look forward to working with everyone again. Happy New Year to all! ‘73 de Jim N2ZZ Director – Roanoke Division as of Jan 1, 2022 Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia ARRL – the national association for Amateur Radio Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division Website: www.arrl-roanoke.org <http://www.arrl-roanoke.org/> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Arthur I. Zygielbaum Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 1:08 PM To: John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33193] Re: US Domestic Migration I appreciate Ria's response. I think she is right on. And as to reality, remember what Lily Tomlin said, "What is reality? Nothing but a collective hunch." Your point, nonetheless, is an important view. I just don't think the cost/benefit case can be easily and convincingly made. But I'm willing to listen. Enough of this heady subject for now. (And perhaps to one of Ria's points) I'm getting my tractor with its snow blower ready for what might be our first real snow. Forecast is for up to 8 inches tomorrow. 73, Art On 12/31/2021 11:44 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote: Art With respect, reality crushes lagging and non-correlative data every time. _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ On 12/31/21 11:32 AM, Arthur I. Zygielbaum wrote: John, Very interesting. But does not correlate with economic growth: https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state In any case statistics are fun. Have I told you about the New York Metropolitan Art Museum? They installed counting turnstiles to keep track of people entering the building. Every year there was an increase in the number of people entering the building. That led to a strong argument to ask the city for a budget increase. One year there was a precipitous drop in the number of visitors. In investigating the matter, it was discovered that at the start of that year, a small building with restrooms was built in the park outside the museum. Have a wonderful New Year. Looking forward to seeing you in Hartford. Art On 12/31/2021 5:32 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote: All See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South. <https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021> https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021 <https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-migration-from-blue-states-to-red-states.html> https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi... This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment. The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south." _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I am not convinced that location is hampering our ability to attract top talent either. In tech, many, if not most tech workers today are actively seeking or negotiating remote work. Connecticut has actually seen population growth because of this. In New Jersey the housing market is on fire because of all of the new remote workers moving here. The major factor for attracting talent will be compensation which combined with remote work isn't exactly location dependent. Tech workers today command top dollar and competition is extremely fierce. Other jobs within ARRL are mission based and I'm not convinced that changing location is going to attract and retain talent. People work for ARRL for various reasons but a big one is that they believe in the mission. Due to nonprofit status I don't think that the tax climate is that big of a deal for us and the real costs of uprooting and moving the organization would be immense. Not to mention that we would still have a presence in connecticut for historic reasons (think of the diamond terrace donors and their bricks and benches, let's move all that?) With growth, cost of living will also increase. Florida for example has seen explosive growth but lots of new toll roads and higher cost of living. Texas housing is also pretty expensive now. Don't get me wrong - I would enjoy having good bbq at every board meeting and flying out to Texas, but I don't see it as a magic silver bullet. 73 and happy new year. Ria N2RJ ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Arthur I. Zygielbaum <aiz@ctwsoft.com> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 12:32:05 PM To: Stratton, John, N5AUS (Dir, WG) <N5AUS@n5aus.com>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:33190] Re: US Domestic Migration John, Very interesting. But does not correlate with economic growth: https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state In any case statistics are fun. Have I told you about the New York Metropolitan Art Museum? They installed counting turnstiles to keep track of people entering the building. Every year there was an increase in the number of people entering the building. That led to a strong argument to ask the city for a budget increase. One year there was a precipitous drop in the number of visitors. In investigating the matter, it was discovered that at the start of that year, a small building with restrooms was built in the park outside the museum. Have a wonderful New Year. Looking forward to seeing you in Hartford. Art On 12/31/2021 5:32 AM, John Robert Stratton wrote: All See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South. https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021 https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi... This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment. The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south." _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
This is a good time for us all to consider member population in each division. There are six divisions with fewer than 10,000 members. Dakota has 3,361, fewer members than each of the SECTIONS of Georgia and Northern Florida. The Southeastern Division has more members than the next smaller division by almost the same population as Dakota. This was my primary takeaway from these data - we can look at our own membership data to correlate this. Florida has seen huge growth. As likely the only member of this board who has worked in, and hired people in the Hartford area (as a consultant for Hartford Insurance Group IT) there are many educated and qualified people. Taxes are high, but government services are as well. Public schools are some of the best in the nation - some of the best colleges and universities in the world are within 100 miles. Lee mentioned gross GDP per state. If you look at CT, WA, NY and CA, GDP per capita is higher than TX. This means productivity per person, indicating (geographically) that individual productivity is greater in CT than in Texas. People come to work for people. Recruiting includes selling and delivering expectations of potential employees to a workplace. We must answer their question, “Why should I work here?” early in the process, and introduce them to employees who mirror their goals. I haven’t heard from staff that ARRL is having difficulty hiring people. If staff chooses to hire individual contributors as remote employees, particularly those who are creative staff, I think that’s a good idea. But Mr. Minster’s call. But moving HQ would need a really good justification case. Mickey ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 6:33 AM To: arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:33189] US Domestic Migration All See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South. https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021 https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi... This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment. The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south." _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________
Here in the heart of Silicon Valley you can definitely sense a shift in attitudes and a migratory pull. This used to be the center of the universe for anyone in a technology oriented field and a place where you just had lunch with your friend at Oracle, or Sun, or Adobe, or Intel, or whatever when you had a question, were looking for a new job, or needed advice. Now many talk about it being too costly to stay, between taxes and real estate, and how the weather (which is truly exquisitely temperate) is not worth the price. I came here 40+ years ago from the northeast for just those things (weather, jobs, professional opportunities). Now friends and colleagues who have lived for decades here, many of whom are native Californians, have recently departed for rural states. Some are working remote and some are retiring. But they are leaving, seemingly in droves. Real estate is down slightly and the freeways are less crowded. It’s not scientific, but I’ve been through several boom-bust cycles here and this one feels different. One point of writing this is to say that the migration from California appears to be real, but the destinations are varied. Another point is that these things are cyclic and motivations are complex. Technology has its say as well. It is almost impossible to predict how the current migration will settle out. If we were to contemplate moving HQ, it would be a mistake to assume what’s happening now will always be the future. On Dec 31, 2021, at 3:32 AM, John Robert Stratton <N5AUS@n5aus.com<mailto:N5AUS@n5aus.com>> wrote: All See the following articles that quantify the shift of the US population from the Northeast, Midwest and West to the South. https://www.dailyinfographic.com/united-states-domestic-migration-2021 https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/12/new-us-census-data-major-mi... This directly impacts our efforts to hire or retain competent and productive employees and again highlights the continued, and worsening, lack of business sense in remaining headquartered in a failing economic environment. The mantra was once "move west"; in this century, hard data says it is "move south." _______________________________________ John Robert Stratton N5AUS Director West Gulf Division Office: 512-445-6262 Cell: 512-426-2028 P.O. Box 2232 Austin, Texas 78768-2232 _______________________________________ _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -Kristen (K6WX) "Your eyes ... it's a day's work just looking into them" Laurie Anderson (--... ...-- -.. . -.- -.... .-- -..-)
participants (6)
-
Arthur I. Zygielbaum -
Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) -
Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD) -
James F. Boehner, MD -
John Robert Stratton -
Kristen McIntyre