[arrl-odv:30150] Use of "ARRL" question...
I have a technical question that has been puzzling me for a while now. Maybe one of the grammar gurus or lawyers can answer this: I've always considered the use of "ARRL" to be an acronym for "American Radio Relay League". That would indicate that a sentence would use the word "the" in reference to the ARRL. For example: "The ARRL (took this action)". What I'm seeing a lot of is: "ARRL (took this action)" ie: "ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times" verses "The ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times". It seems that all of the ARRL news releases I'm seeing now use the former, and not the latter. That seems somewhat odd to me. Are we now just "ARRL" (like "IBM"), and not the "American Radio Relay League" ? Is it still OK to refer to us as "the League", if we are really just "ARRL" now? 73; Mike W7VO
As related to me by Frank Fallon: The term “American Radio Relay League” was confusing because many people including government elected officials didn’t know what a “radio relay league” was. So the term “ARRL, the National Association for amateur radio” was coined. It’s an alias of sorts and I believe now officially recorded in the articles of incorporation. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:03 PM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
I have a technical question that has been puzzling me for a while now. Maybe one of the grammar gurus or lawyers can answer this:
I've always considered the use of "ARRL" to be an acronym for "American Radio Relay League". That would indicate that a sentence would use the word "the" in reference to the ARRL. For example: "The ARRL (took this action)". What I'm seeing a lot of is: "ARRL (took this action)" ie: "ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times" verses "The ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times". It seems that all of the ARRL news releases I'm seeing now use the former, and not the latter. That seems somewhat odd to me.
Are we now just "ARRL" (like "IBM"), and not the "American Radio Relay League" ? Is it still OK to refer to us as "the League", if we are really just "ARRL" now?
73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Ria said: “ I believe now officially recorded in the articles of incorporation”. . Well, it was supposed to be, but they were not yet filed, which might be a good thing. However, subject to CT counsel comment, I am sure that is not a proper way to add a fictitious name for use interchangeable with the corporate name. I suspect the correct way is drop that for Articles, which is just awkward, and file fictitious name registrations for all the alias we want to use which will point back to the corporate name. The object of such laws is to allow the public to find the real party in interest if they search the name in the records. Not difficult, but we have been struggling with this for a while. Local counsel likely can comment on the procedure without any research needed. This is fundamental stuff and CT procedure looks basically the same as almost all states. If someone searched the corporate names or DBA list, having the body of the articles state an alternate name will not be easily searched as it is in the text of the articles. Bob Famiglio FAMIGLIO & ASSOCIATES Attorneys & Counselors at Law P.O. Box 1999 Media, PA 19063 Voice: 610-359-7300 Fax: 610-359-8580 This transmission is intended only for the viewing and use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information which is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone, collect, and delete this message and all attachments. We will pay all reasonable costs for your expenses and time. From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 12:22 PM To: Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> Cc: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:30151] Re: Use of "ARRL" question... As related to me by Frank Fallon: The term “American Radio Relay League” was confusing because many people including government elected officials didn’t know what a “radio relay league” was. So the term “ARRL, the National Association for amateur radio” was coined. It’s an alias of sorts and I believe now officially recorded in the articles of incorporation. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:03 PM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net <mailto:w7vo@comcast.net> > wrote: I have a technical question that has been puzzling me for a while now. Maybe one of the grammar gurus or lawyers can answer this: I've always considered the use of "ARRL" to be an acronym for "American Radio Relay League". That would indicate that a sentence would use the word "the" in reference to the ARRL. For example: "The ARRL (took this action)". What I'm seeing a lot of is: "ARRL (took this action)" ie: "ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times" verses "The ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times". It seems that all of the ARRL news releases I'm seeing now use the former, and not the latter. That seems somewhat odd to me. Are we now just "ARRL" (like "IBM"), and not the "American Radio Relay League" ? Is it still OK to refer to us as "the League", if we are really just "ARRL" now? 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Hi Mike: I use "the League" often, and sometimes in the same message I use "ARRL." Where I get tripped up is saying "the ARRL" or simply "ARRL." (hi) 73Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Fri, Apr 17, 2020 11:03 am Subject: [arrl-odv:30150] Use of "ARRL" question... I have a technical question that has been puzzling me for a while now. Maybe one of the grammar gurus or lawyers can answer this: I've always considered the use of "ARRL" to be an acronym for "American Radio Relay League". That would indicate that a sentence would use the word "the" in reference to the ARRL. For example: "The ARRL (took this action)". What I'm seeing a lot of is: "ARRL (took this action)" ie: "ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times" verses "The ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times". It seems that all of the ARRL news releases I'm seeing now use the former, and not the latter. That seems somewhat odd to me. Are we now just "ARRL" (like "IBM"), and not the "American Radio Relay League" ? Is it still OK to refer to us as "the League", if we are really just "ARRL" now? 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Jim said: My understanding is that all three are correct. Yes and no, depending on what you are using it for. This is a subject with which I am well acquainted. The legal name recorded in the CT state offices is as shown on the attached record. I discussed this over 3 years ago in a 25 page memo Tom Gallagher and Rick had but which I assume never made it to the board. It detailed our trademark registration problems and included these fictitious (DBA) name issues as well, many of which were quite significant. We are fixing that now. “The American Radio Relay League, Incorporated” is the exact name which should be used on official documents and the like. In most state corporation office records it is common to “append” the Leading “The” for facilitating searching purposes. Nothing wrong with abbreviating in informal use or in articles and such when appropriate. We have no fictitious name or DBA filings for either ARRL by itself, or ARRL the National Association for Amateur Radio ( though I urged it be filed years ago to allow our interchangeable use). So, use of that moniker alone may not be compliant with CT law, but we do hold a trademark registration for it. Problem is the part that says “the National Association for Amateur Radio” was disclaimed unnecessarily in the prosecution of the application and is not protected or made part of the Mark. That was a mistake we are correcting. Along with the wrong formal name being used on virtually all the earlier trademark applications. That is going to cost us to correct, but we are on it. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of James Tiemstra Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 12:40 PM To: Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:30153] Re: Use of "ARRL" question... Mike, My understanding is that all three are correct. "The American Radio Relay League, Incorporated" is the corporation's legal name according to the ARRL Articles of Association. "ARRL The national association for Amateur Radio" is a registered trademark of the ARRL, although "the" ARRL still sounds better to me when used in a sentence, and the "League" is simply a shorthand reference for the ARRL that is in common usage (and one that I particularly like). 73, Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT Pacific Division Director On April 17, 2020 at 9:03 AM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net <mailto:w7vo@comcast.net> > wrote: I have a technical question that has been puzzling me for a while now. Maybe one of the grammar gurus or lawyers can answer this: I've always considered the use of "ARRL" to be an acronym for "American Radio Relay League". That would indicate that a sentence would use the word "the" in reference to the ARRL. For example: "The ARRL (took this action)". What I'm seeing a lot of is: "ARRL (took this action)" ie: "ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times" verses "The ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times". It seems that all of the ARRL news releases I'm seeing now use the former, and not the latter. That seems somewhat odd to me. Are we now just "ARRL" (like "IBM"), and not the "American Radio Relay League" ? Is it still OK to refer to us as "the League", if we are really just "ARRL" now? 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
You have put your finger on something that is partially a Washington, DC disease. Insiders in DC frequently say: “FAA’s rule 72.02 says:” You and I think they should say: “The FAA’s rule 72.02 says:” This is true across many many acronym agencies. But everyone still says “The White House today announced. . .” So DC insiders have not settled on one usage. OTOH, our British cousins always say: “MI6 today announced. . .” “Number 10 Downing Street received delegates from . . .” and “Buckingham Palace today released . . . But they do say: “The Home Secretary today announced. . .”, or “The Office of the Secretary today announced.” So it would appear to be a question of style and usage. Me? I prefer “the ARRL DX Contest” (and not “the ARRL’s DX Contest), and “K5UR, President of the ARRL.” HOWEVER, I think there is such a thing as using the word “the” too many times. I would discourage “the ARRL – the National Organization for Amateur Radio.” So that leaves us with “ARRL – the National Organization for Amateur Radio.” So I still say “the League.” W3KD always wrote “ARRL views this as . . .” and I haven’t yet noticed what K3ZJ does. Welcome to the modern world where there are no firm lines between right and wrong. -Fred K1VR From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ritz Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 12:03 PM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:30150] Use of "ARRL" question... I have a technical question that has been puzzling me for a while now. Maybe one of the grammar gurus or lawyers can answer this: I've always considered the use of "ARRL" to be an acronym for "American Radio Relay League". That would indicate that a sentence would use the word "the" in reference to the ARRL. For example: "The ARRL (took this action)". What I'm seeing a lot of is: "ARRL (took this action)" ie: "ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times" verses "The ARRL wants you to stay safe in these times". It seems that all of the ARRL news releases I'm seeing now use the former, and not the latter. That seems somewhat odd to me. Are we now just "ARRL" (like "IBM"), and not the "American Radio Relay League" ? Is it still OK to refer to us as "the League", if we are really just "ARRL" now? 73; Mike W7VO -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
participants (6)
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Bob Famiglio, K3RF -
Fred Hopengarten -
James Tiemstra -
k5ur＠aol.com -
Michael Ritz -
rjairam＠gmail.com