[arrl-odv:33490] ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
OR we can simply say that we agree with the IARU in this matter: Statement from IARU <https://www.iaru.org/2022/statement-from-iaru/> Feb 28, 2022 · <https://www.iaru.org/category/emergency-comms/> Emergency Comms, <https://www.iaru.org/category/iarums/> IARUMS, <https://www.iaru.org/category/sin-categorizar/> Sin categorizar, <https://www.iaru.org/category/spectrum/> Spectrum, <https://www.iaru.org/category/vhf-uhf-shf/> VHF/UHF/SHF, <https://www.iaru.org/category/youth-general/> Youth General · <https://www.iaru.org/author/w5zn/> Joel Harrison In response to recent world events, the International Amateur Radio Union has issued the following statement: “IARU is an apolitical organization focused on promoting and defending amateur radio and the amateur radio services. The amateur radio service is about self-instruction in communications and friendship between people.” We are the International Secretariat of the IARU as well as one of their member-societies. This would not be much of a stretch. My preference is that the ARRL takes a leadership role and as policy makers of our organization, we put out our own position statement. However, should we wish to take a subordinate position and merely support the IARU as one of its member societies, that would at least be something. Or we can be silent on the matter. I just would like guidance on what to say when asked, as all of us will have communications with our members, either electronically or in person in the very near future. If we do not take a position, I know there are some who will want to know why. ‘73 de Jim N2ZZ Director – Roanoke Division Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia ARRL – the national association for Amateur Radio Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division Website: www.arrl-roanoke.org <http://www.arrl-roanoke.org/> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 12:50 PM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:33488] Re: ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine There seem to be two paths forward here which involve remaining nonconfrontational; Path 1: 1. we struggle to maintain some sort of non-confrontational stance and maintain good relations with individuals not obviously connected with the opposing government’s actions 2. relations slowly soften 3. in the end, cooler heads prevail, and the crisis is averted Path 2: 1. we struggle to maintain some sort of non-confrontational stance and maintain good relations with individuals not obviously connected with the opposing government’s actions 2. the opposition sees this as weakness, and pushes additional demands 3. we do a few cycles of this, until finally the demands push to close, and we fight back against a now stringer opponent There have been examples of both over the last 100 years. For Path 1, think thaw in the cold war, and the Berlin wall coming down. For Path 2, think the Sudetenland and “peace in our time”. Both paths start out the same way. The biggest difference in outcome between these two cases seems to me to be the stability, ambition, and ruthlessness of the “other side”. Which situation do we have in front of us? Its hard to know, but I do think that if we are considering the approach suggested by David and Art, it should be tested against both of these scenarios. It’s easy to fall into the “righteous indignation” trap and to take a harmfully aggressive stance. It is equally easy to fall into the “friendly engagement” trap and ignore the next step that the opponent is likely to take. In either case, “I don’t know what will happen” isn’t a useful excuse for inaction. Decisions often need to be made on incomplete data. And finally, as to Ricks comment “… ARRL cannot get involved in political or international disputes.”, there is no non-political position here. Choosing not to “get involved” is itself the taking of a political position. Mike K1TWF -----Original Message----- From: Arthur I. Zygielbaum < <mailto:aiz@ctwsoft.com> aiz@ctwsoft.com> To: david davidsiddall-law.com < <mailto:david@davidsiddall-law.com> david@davidsiddall-law.com>; <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org < <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2022 11:54 am Subject: [arrl-odv:33487] Re: ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine David, Thanks for forwarding this. Sometime I'll have to share a letter that I received from a Cuban ham during the height of the cold war. Ham radio keeps the doors open and provides connections supportive of knowing each other as people. I agree that we should not use ham radio in any political sense. It's difficult because, like I suspect all of you are, I am abhorred by the actions taking place in Ukraine. 73, Art On 3/8/2022 9:14 AM, david davidsiddall-law.com wrote: NOT FOR PUBLICATION OR FURTHER DISTRIBUTION These are tough questions with multiple layers. At such times it can be helpful, although not dispositive, to hear the views of the trained and experienced. With that in mind, below is an email from Fred Laun, K3ZO. His email is addressed to the CQ Contest Committee, on which he serves. He also is an ARRL Diamond Club member. I am circulating it here with his permission and it should not be distributed further without his express consent. (He mentions his Argentine experience – K8CX has preserved some background here: <http://hamgallery.com/qsl/country/Argentina/lu5hfi.htm> http://hamgallery.com/qsl/country/Argentina/lu5hfi.htm.) From: Alfred Laun Date: Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 9:13 PM Subject: Re: CQ contests during War Gentlemen: In recent years it has been my role in the CQWW Committee to provide some overall knowledge of international affairs to bear on what CQWW means to the world. This very much includes the fact that the international friendships we develop through participation in our chosen hobby transcends the differences of opinion that particular political events may try to foist on us. As an officer in the American Foreign Service for 25 years, holding a Top Secret security clearance, I was well aware of the false impressions authorities and political actors tried to impute to our non-political actions as proud members of the Amateur Radio Service. One of my proudest achievements was to help convince the authorities in Thailand that the Amateur Radio Service was not a security threat to them, but in fact was a very civic minded hobby which brought people together and was of great assistance in times of emergency, such as floods and tsunamis. When I first arrived in Thailand, Amateur Radio was formally illegal. Now Thailand has a thriving Amateur Radio Service with over 100,000 licensed hams. The principal problem it has these days is that there are few times examinations are given to allow VHF-only licensees to upgrade to HF status. I personally almost lost my life in 1974 because I had two very visible towers as a part of my hilltop contest station at LU5HFI. Anti-government elements there, given the fact that I was an American government official, assumed that my station was being used to relay messages from the American Embassy in Chile to Washington in connection with the overthrow of the government in that neighboring country. My long experience as a ham in several different countries has convinced me that, no matter how we personally may feel about a particular political situation, it is NEVER a good idea to use our Amateur Radio institutions to push a political point of view. I was posted in Vietnam in 1971-1972. There have been wars going on since then in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria to name only a few. It is a sad aspect of humanity that even in modern times wars continue to be used to settle accounts. This does not mean that we should allow our emotions of the moment to distract us from the peaceful, forward-looking, example that we as radio amateurs can exhibit to the world. Let's not allow any of our actions to lead to unintended consequences. Sincerely, Alfred A. "Fred" Laun, III, K3ZO ### _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I think Jim is on the right track, in keeping the message consistent with IARU. Simple, and clean. No reason to overstate anything. As Ria said, " I agree that any stance is a political stance, even lack of a stance." And to quote Mr. Peart, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
From the back row.. Mark, HDX
On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:07 PM James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv < arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote:
OR we can simply say that we agree with the IARU in this matter:
*Statement from IARU*
Feb 28, 2022 <https://www.iaru.org/2022/statement-from-iaru/> · Emergency Comms <https://www.iaru.org/category/emergency-comms/>, IARUMS <https://www.iaru.org/category/iarums/>, Sin categorizar <https://www.iaru.org/category/sin-categorizar/>, Spectrum <https://www.iaru.org/category/spectrum/>, VHF/UHF/SHF <https://www.iaru.org/category/vhf-uhf-shf/>, Youth General <https://www.iaru.org/category/youth-general/> · Joel Harrison <https://www.iaru.org/author/w5zn/>
In response to recent world events, the International Amateur Radio Union has issued the following statement:
“IARU is an apolitical organization focused on promoting and defending amateur radio and the amateur radio services. The amateur radio service is about self-instruction in communications and friendship between people.”
We are the International Secretariat of the IARU as well as one of their member-societies. This would not be much of a stretch.
My preference is that the ARRL takes a leadership role and as policy makers of our organization, we put out our own position statement. However, should we wish to take a subordinate position and merely support the IARU as one of its member societies, that would at least be something.
Or we can be silent on the matter. I just would like guidance on what to say when asked, as all of us will have communications with our members, either electronically or in person in the very near future. If we do not take a position, I know there are some who will want to know why.
‘73 de Jim N2ZZ
Director – Roanoke Division
*Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia*
ARRL – the national association for Amateur Radio
Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division
Website: www.arrl-roanoke.org
[image: Text, logo Description automatically generated]
*From:* arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> *On Behalf Of *Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv *Sent:* Tuesday, March 8, 2022 12:50 PM *To:* arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org *Subject:* [arrl-odv:33488] Re: ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
There seem to be two paths forward here which involve remaining nonconfrontational;
Path 1:
1. we struggle to maintain some sort of non-confrontational stance and maintain good relations with individuals not obviously connected with the opposing government’s actions
2. relations slowly soften
3. in the end, cooler heads prevail, and the crisis is averted
Path 2:
1. we struggle to maintain some sort of non-confrontational stance and maintain good relations with individuals not obviously connected with the opposing government’s actions
2. the opposition sees this as weakness, and pushes additional demands
3. we do a few cycles of this, until finally the demands push to close, and we fight back against a now stringer opponent
There have been examples of both over the last 100 years.
For Path 1, think thaw in the cold war, and the Berlin wall coming down.
For Path 2, think the Sudetenland and “peace in our time”.
Both paths start out the same way. The biggest difference in outcome between these two cases seems to me to be the stability, ambition, and ruthlessness of the “other side”.
Which situation do we have in front of us? Its hard to know, but I do think that if we are considering the approach suggested by David and Art, it should be tested against both of these scenarios. It’s easy to fall into the “righteous indignation” trap and to take a harmfully aggressive stance. It is equally easy to fall into the “friendly engagement” trap and ignore the next step that the opponent is likely to take. In either case, “I don’t know what will happen” isn’t a useful excuse for inaction. Decisions often need to be made on incomplete data. And finally, as to Ricks comment “… ARRL cannot get involved in political or international disputes.”, there is no non-political position here. Choosing not to “get involved” is itself the taking of a political position.
Mike
K1TWF
-----Original Message----- From: Arthur I. Zygielbaum <aiz@ctwsoft.com> To: david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2022 11:54 am Subject: [arrl-odv:33487] Re: ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
David,
Thanks for forwarding this. Sometime I'll have to share a letter that I received from a Cuban ham during the height of the cold war. Ham radio keeps the doors open and provides connections supportive of knowing each other as people. I agree that we should not use ham radio in any political sense.
It's difficult because, like I suspect all of you are, I am abhorred by the actions taking place in Ukraine.
73, Art
On 3/8/2022 9:14 AM, david davidsiddall-law.com wrote:
*NOT FOR PUBLICATION OR FURTHER DISTRIBUTION*
These are tough questions with multiple layers. At such times it can be helpful, although not dispositive, to hear the views of the trained and experienced. With that in mind, below is an email from Fred Laun, K3ZO. His email is addressed to the CQ Contest Committee, on which he serves. He also is an ARRL Diamond Club member. I am circulating it here with his permission and it should not be distributed further without his express consent. (He mentions his Argentine experience – K8CX has preserved some background here: http://hamgallery.com/qsl/country/Argentina/lu5hfi.htm.)
From: *Alfred Laun* Date: Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 9:13 PM Subject: Re: CQ contests during War
Gentlemen:
In recent years it has been my role in the CQWW Committee to provide some overall knowledge of international affairs to bear on what CQWW means to the world. This very much includes the fact that the international friendships we develop through participation in our chosen hobby transcends the differences of opinion that particular political events may try to foist on us.
As an officer in the American Foreign Service for 25 years, holding a Top Secret security clearance, I was well aware of the false impressions authorities and political actors tried to impute to our non-political actions as proud members of the Amateur Radio Service. One of my proudest achievements was to help convince the authorities in Thailand that the Amateur Radio Service was not a security threat to them, but in fact was a very civic minded hobby which brought people together and was of great assistance in times of emergency, such as floods and tsunamis. When I first arrived in Thailand, Amateur Radio was formally illegal. Now Thailand has a thriving Amateur Radio Service with over 100,000 licensed hams. The principal problem it has these days is that there are few times examinations are given to allow VHF-only licensees to upgrade to HF status.
I personally almost lost my life in 1974 because I had two very visible towers as a part of my hilltop contest station at LU5HFI. Anti-government elements there, given the fact that I was an American government official, assumed that my station was being used to relay messages from the American Embassy in Chile to Washington in connection with the overthrow of the government in that neighboring country.
My long experience as a ham in several different countries has convinced me that, no matter how we personally may feel about a particular political situation, it is NEVER a good idea to use our Amateur Radio institutions to push a political point of view. I was posted in Vietnam in 1971-1972. There have been wars going on since then in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria to name only a few. It is a sad aspect of humanity that even in modern times wars continue to be used to settle accounts. This does not mean that we should allow our emotions of the moment to distract us from the peaceful, forward-looking, example that we as radio amateurs can exhibit to the world. Let's not allow any of our actions to lead to unintended consequences.
Sincerely,
Alfred A. "Fred" Laun, III, K3ZO
###
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All, I think we use language similar to the IARU statement. We are the US society and as of now we do not have a dog directly engaged in this fight. We should be mindful of the goodwill value of the amateur radio service as Art pointed out in his earlier post. It should be our desire to maintain a good working relationship with both member societies when this is over. This matter will be sorted out on the battlefield let us not rush in and jump on a bandwagon and try to sort it out in or among amateur societies. We must protect our reputation as the ARRL and as the world leader in amateur radio. As Americans we should take a page from Lincoln “with malice towards none and charity to all” in our dealings and statements since we will want to help restore the amateur radio services in the warring countries when the hostilities end. I agree with Jim on this one and we stand with the IARU position unless the US gets directly involved in the conflict, and then we will reassess our position. And to double down on Neil Peart, “I will choose free will.” 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Mark J Tharp <kb7hdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Jim is on the right track, in keeping the message consistent with IARU. Simple, and clean. No reason to overstate anything.
As Ria said, " I agree that any stance is a political stance, even lack of a stance." And to quote Mr. Peart, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
From the back row.. Mark, HDX
On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:07 PM James F. Boehner, MD via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> wrote: OR we can simply say that we agree with the IARU in this matter:
Statement from IARU
Feb 28, 2022 · Emergency Comms, IARUMS, Sin categorizar, Spectrum, VHF/UHF/SHF, Youth General · Joel Harrison
In response to recent world events, the International Amateur Radio Union has issued the following statement:
“IARU is an apolitical organization focused on promoting and defending amateur radio and the amateur radio services. The amateur radio service is about self-instruction in communications and friendship between people.”
We are the International Secretariat of the IARU as well as one of their member-societies. This would not be much of a stretch.
My preference is that the ARRL takes a leadership role and as policy makers of our organization, we put out our own position statement. However, should we wish to take a subordinate position and merely support the IARU as one of its member societies, that would at least be something.
Or we can be silent on the matter. I just would like guidance on what to say when asked, as all of us will have communications with our members, either electronically or in person in the very near future. If we do not take a position, I know there are some who will want to know why.
‘73 de Jim N2ZZ
Director – Roanoke Division
Representing ARRL members in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia
ARRL – the national association for Amateur Radio
Facebook Page: ARRL Roanoke Division
Website: www.arrl-roanoke.org
From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 12:50 PM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:33488] Re: ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
There seem to be two paths forward here which involve remaining nonconfrontational;
Path 1:
1. we struggle to maintain some sort of non-confrontational stance and maintain good relations with individuals not obviously connected with the opposing government’s actions
2. relations slowly soften
3. in the end, cooler heads prevail, and the crisis is averted
Path 2:
1. we struggle to maintain some sort of non-confrontational stance and maintain good relations with individuals not obviously connected with the opposing government’s actions
2. the opposition sees this as weakness, and pushes additional demands
3. we do a few cycles of this, until finally the demands push to close, and we fight back against a now stringer opponent
There have been examples of both over the last 100 years.
For Path 1, think thaw in the cold war, and the Berlin wall coming down.
For Path 2, think the Sudetenland and “peace in our time”.
Both paths start out the same way. The biggest difference in outcome between these two cases seems to me to be the stability, ambition, and ruthlessness of the “other side”.
Which situation do we have in front of us? Its hard to know, but I do think that if we are considering the approach suggested by David and Art, it should be tested against both of these scenarios. It’s easy to fall into the “righteous indignation” trap and to take a harmfully aggressive stance. It is equally easy to fall into the “friendly engagement” trap and ignore the next step that the opponent is likely to take. In either case, “I don’t know what will happen” isn’t a useful excuse for inaction. Decisions often need to be made on incomplete data. And finally, as to Ricks comment “… ARRL cannot get involved in political or international disputes.”, there is no non-political position here. Choosing not to “get involved” is itself the taking of a political position.
Mike
K1TWF
-----Original Message----- From: Arthur I. Zygielbaum <aiz@ctwsoft.com> To: david davidsiddall-law.com <david@davidsiddall-law.com>; arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2022 11:54 am Subject: [arrl-odv:33487] Re: ARRL Stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
David,
Thanks for forwarding this. Sometime I'll have to share a letter that I received from a Cuban ham during the height of the cold war. Ham radio keeps the doors open and provides connections supportive of knowing each other as people. I agree that we should not use ham radio in any political sense.
It's difficult because, like I suspect all of you are, I am abhorred by the actions taking place in Ukraine.
73, Art
On 3/8/2022 9:14 AM, david davidsiddall-law.com wrote:
NOT FOR PUBLICATION OR FURTHER DISTRIBUTION
These are tough questions with multiple layers. At such times it can be helpful, although not dispositive, to hear the views of the trained and experienced. With that in mind, below is an email from Fred Laun, K3ZO. His email is addressed to the CQ Contest Committee, on which he serves. He also is an ARRL Diamond Club member. I am circulating it here with his permission and it should not be distributed further without his express consent. (He mentions his Argentine experience – K8CX has preserved some background here: http://hamgallery.com/qsl/country/Argentina/lu5hfi.htm.)
From: Alfred Laun Date: Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 9:13 PM Subject: Re: CQ contests during War
Gentlemen:
In recent years it has been my role in the CQWW Committee to provide some overall knowledge of international affairs to bear on what CQWW means to the world. This very much includes the fact that the international friendships we develop through participation in our chosen hobby transcends the differences of opinion that particular political events may try to foist on us.
As an officer in the American Foreign Service for 25 years, holding a Top Secret security clearance, I was well aware of the false impressions authorities and political actors tried to impute to our non-political actions as proud members of the Amateur Radio Service. One of my proudest achievements was to help convince the authorities in Thailand that the Amateur Radio Service was not a security threat to them, but in fact was a very civic minded hobby which brought people together and was of great assistance in times of emergency, such as floods and tsunamis. When I first arrived in Thailand, Amateur Radio was formally illegal. Now Thailand has a thriving Amateur Radio Service with over 100,000 licensed hams. The principal problem it has these days is that there are few times examinations are given to allow VHF-only licensees to upgrade to HF status.
I personally almost lost my life in 1974 because I had two very visible towers as a part of my hilltop contest station at LU5HFI. Anti-government elements there, given the fact that I was an American government official, assumed that my station was being used to relay messages from the American Embassy in Chile to Washington in connection with the overthrow of the government in that neighboring country.
My long experience as a ham in several different countries has convinced me that, no matter how we personally may feel about a particular political situation, it is NEVER a good idea to use our Amateur Radio institutions to push a political point of view. I was posted in Vietnam in 1971-1972. There have been wars going on since then in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria to name only a few. It is a sad aspect of humanity that even in modern times wars continue to be used to settle accounts. This does not mean that we should allow our emotions of the moment to distract us from the peaceful, forward-looking, example that we as radio amateurs can exhibit to the world. Let's not allow any of our actions to lead to unintended consequences.
Sincerely,
Alfred A. "Fred" Laun, III, K3ZO
###
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participants (3)
-
David Norris -
James F. Boehner, MD -
Mark J Tharp