[arrl-odv:30648] Denver meetings
From the back row, I agree 100% with Jim.
In person sounded good up to even a few weeks ago, however now we are seeing counties going backwards and closing up shops again, more people gathering, spreading this thing around, etc, etc.
From just having gone through the EMCOM Director search and holding all the interviews via ZOOM, I believe we (the committee) were all comfortable, and confident in our decisions. I honestly feel you get a better understanding of the person when they are in a more relaxed environment than sitting across from you at the table. I don't see a real difference in the two positions from a hiring standpoint. I have hired many over the years that "performed" great during the interview only to find they were not quite worthy of the Oscar after some time. I have also found some of our best employees are those who interviewed the worst.
I would rather see us all safe, sound, *and ALIVE* in January when with luck we can all offer a *proper* "welcome to the family" for both of these new folks. As my friend and fellow troublemaker Mr. Cooper once said, "OK you can toss the tomatoes now" or something like that.. Mark, HDX Pesky VD from the NW On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 1:50 PM James Tiemstra <k6jat@comcast.net> wrote:
For the record, I can no longer refrain from making the following statement: I do not understand why the Board is insisting on conducting in-person interviews in Denver since the risks appear to far outweigh the unarticulated benefits.
First, ignoring the nationwide pandemic for the moment, separately scheduled interviews in a remote location would be a push from a cost-benefit standpoint, but to encourage our leadership (and the candidates) to unnecessarily expose themselves to a highly contagious and lethal virus for just the opportunity to possibly interview up to four masked candidates in-person, rather than by video conference, seems foolhardy at best.
Second, providing for two modes of interviewing introduces an inherent element of unfairness to both the candidates and the Board members, especially if you believe that there is some significant, intangible benefit to the in-person process.
Third, believing that we can effectively mitigate the risks is willful blindness. If we think that traveling first class rather than coach on a two to five hour plane flight with a hundred passengers and a Covid closet for a restroom marginalizes the risk, we have another thing coming. And, of course, flying requires passing through airports, and driving still requires the use of unknown public facilities; not to mention whatever conditions might exist at the airport Marriott which is in the business of hosting travelers from all over, and where all of our attendees will be exposing each other to their travels.
Finally, there are a host of state and local orders, protocols, requirements, guidance and conditions that make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for some to attend even if they wanted to. Anyone who's had a recent Doctor's appointment will know how difficult a time the medical profession is having, how serious they are about this virus and how hard it is to get medical attention.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a frequent flyer in several programs, and I love to travel as much as anyone. However, this is not the time to take needless risks or unwittingly cause ourselves harm. This is a time to err on the side of safety, especially where there can be little cost and no risk while still meeting our objectives.
Please be safe everyone es 73,
*Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT*
*Pacific Division Director*
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I agree with Director Tiemstra. I have also agreed to fly to Denver. My reason is that I believe that I believe that the process so far has excluded the input of the Board outside the hiring committee and I that the members of the Southeastern Division need to be represented as equitably in this process as possible. Director Carlson asked me if traveling was "against my better judgement." I replied that it is. I feel that, in order to fairly represent the Division, I must travel if any one of the rest of us travel. I appreciate the question. Were we all asked that? My opinion is that we can fairly pick a candidate remotely without risking anyone’s health. I also feel that the “option” to travel or not results in the unintentional consequence of dividing us into two “classes” of evaluators - those who attend and those who do not. I suspect our candidates feel the same way - certainly every serious candidate must attend. Now that the only Colorado candidate has apparently withdrawn, all of the candidates must make long trips, as does Mr. Shelley. If the Colorado statistics degrade just a bit, the Connecticut employees are subject to a 14 day quarantine, or testing, or paying a fine. Currently, the rate of infection in Colorado is 9.4/100000 people. Connecticut requires this quarantine For those returning from states that reach 10/100000, which Colorado will likely meet in the next two weeks.Most metro areas have already surpassed this number. We saw this week that a dedicated follower of President Trump, who traveled from Atlanta to Tulsa to attend a rally, contracted COVID and has passed away. It appears he travelled by private jet, not even by airline. I've heard lectures of Corporate Counsel, Rick Roderick and others about how we must protect the League with our speech and actions. If one of us were to be sick as a result of this trip, what is the potential liability to the League? It certainly doesn't seem prudent - the risk seems high. Given some of the paranoia I hear about what I perceive to be a general paranoia about litigation and liability, I’m surprised “Connecticut Counsel” has not weighed in. I'm booking flights today, so I will see many of you in Denver. May you all be safe and health. 73, Mickey N4MB On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 4:50 PM James Tiemstra <k6jat@comcast.net> wrote:
For the record, I can no longer refrain from making the following statement: I do not understand why the Board is insisting on conducting in-person interviews in Denver since the risks appear to far outweigh the unarticulated benefits.
First, ignoring the nationwide pandemic for the moment, separately scheduled interviews in a remote location would be a push from a cost-benefit standpoint, but to encourage our leadership (and the candidates) to unnecessarily expose themselves to a highly contagious and lethal virus for just the opportunity to possibly interview up to four masked candidates in-person, rather than by video conference, seems foolhardy at best.
Second, providing for two modes of interviewing introduces an inherent element of unfairness to both the candidates and the Board members, especially if you believe that there is some significant, intangible benefit to the in-person process.
Third, believing that we can effectively mitigate the risks is willful blindness. If we think that traveling first class rather than coach on a two to five hour plane flight with a hundred passengers and a Covid closet for a restroom marginalizes the risk, we have another thing coming. And, of course, flying requires passing through airports, and driving still requires the use of unknown public facilities; not to mention whatever conditions might exist at the airport Marriott which is in the business of hosting travelers from all over, and where all of our attendees will be exposing each other to their travels.
Finally, there are a host of state and local orders, protocols, requirements, guidance and conditions that make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for some to attend even if they wanted to. Anyone who's had a recent Doctor's appointment will know how difficult a time the medical profession is having, how serious they are about this virus and how hard it is to get medical attention.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a frequent flyer in several programs, and I love to travel as much as anyone. However, this is not the time to take needless risks or unwittingly cause ourselves harm. This is a time to err on the side of safety, especially where there can be little cost and no risk while still meeting our objectives.
Please be safe everyone es 73,
*Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT*
*Pacific Division Director*
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-- “Ends and beginnings—there are no such things. There are only middles.” Robert Frost
I strongly agree with the concerns expressed by Directors Tiemstra and Baker, and I do not support “forcing" the candidates to come to this “semi” in-person meeting. As we attempt to go about League business on many levels (Board meetings, HQ staffing, hamfests & conventions, multi-person field organization and operating events), I encourage everyone on ODV to listen to the following free podcast on WebMD. It’s a July 30th “Health Now” interview with infectious disease expert Michael Saag, MD, from Birmingham AL. Both he and his physician son (at NYU) have had the virus — or still have it, depending on how you view “recovery”. It runs about 33 minutes, and every minute of it is worth listening to — but especially when Dr. Saag discusses the long-term nature of what our societal and social responses to this pandemic need to be if we are to survive it. Two sobering take-aways: 1. While you may think you have recovered from the virus within a few weeks or months, it may continue to irreversibly ravage your insides. So much for the utility of herd immunity! 2. It was six years from first recognized symptoms of HIV/AIDS until there was an effective treatment for prolonging the lives of those who contracted it. We can hope it won’t take that long this time around, but six months it ain’t! I no longer believe it reasonable to think it will be a matter of “only a few weeks or months” before we can safely travel to/from and gather in enclosed spaces in the ways we were accustomed to. If this turns out to be true, it affects all the activities I listed above — and many more than I haven’t even thought of or that will spring up (think virtual hamfests) in response to Covid-19. Further, in parallel with the process of selecting a new CEO I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus. Bud, W2RU
Bud, et al: "I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus." I am already preparing a motion to be presented at our August "continuation" meeting that will task the Legal Structure Review Committee with reviewing all of the ARRL governance documents to ensure we are adhering to current CT statutes, consolidate Standing Orders as applicable into By-Laws, and updating the Director's Handbook with SOs and current By-Laws so there are not multiple and conflicting versions of governing rules for governance. Last time any of this was reviewed was at least four years ago. I'd like to work with you to ensure that your request is part of this motion. 73; Mike W7VO
On 08/02/2020 5:57 AM Hippisley, George (Bud), W2RU, (Dir, RK) <w2ru@arrl.org> wrote:
I strongly agree with the concerns expressed by Directors Tiemstra and Baker, and I do not support “forcing" the candidates to come to this “semi” in-person meeting.
As we attempt to go about League business on many levels (Board meetings, HQ staffing, hamfests & conventions, multi-person field organization and operating events), I encourage everyone on ODV to listen to the following free podcast on WebMD. It’s a July 30th “Health Now” interview with infectious disease expert Michael Saag, MD, from Birmingham AL. Both he and his physician son (at NYU) have had the virus — or still have it, depending on how you view “recovery”. It runs about 33 minutes, and every minute of it is worth listening to — but especially when Dr. Saag discusses the long-term nature of what our societal and social responses to this pandemic need to be if we are to survive it.
Two sobering take-aways:
1. While you may think you have recovered from the virus within a few weeks or months, it may continue to irreversibly ravage your insides. So much for the utility of herd immunity!
2. It was six years from first recognized symptoms of HIV/AIDS until there was an effective treatment for prolonging the lives of those who contracted it. We can hope it won’t take that long this time around, but six months it ain’t!
I no longer believe it reasonable to think it will be a matter of “only a few weeks or months” before we can safely travel to/from and gather in enclosed spaces in the ways we were accustomed to. If this turns out to be true, it affects all the activities I listed above — and many more than I haven’t even thought of or that will spring up (think virtual hamfests) in response to Covid-19.
Further, in parallel with the process of selecting a new CEO I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus.
Bud, W2RU _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Thanks to Dave Siddall for the link to the WebMD podcast featuring infectious disease expert Dr. Michael Saag: https://tinyurl.com/y6kxckly <https://tinyurl.com/y6kxckly> Bud, W2RU
Not that it matters, but my take is: Selecting the new CEO will most likely be the most important thing I will ever do as an ARRL Director, and that thought has some weight. At this point the decision has been made to do "live" interviews, and I'm sure plane tickets have been purchased by many. Yes, I absolutely agree the risk is not zero, but it is minimal. I believe staff have done what they can to mitigate risk, the rest will be up to individuals to ensure they follow the CDC guidelines; wear a mask when in public, and wash your hands often. We're not attending a wild college pool party here, we will mostly be in a very controlled environment. Business is still being conducted all across the country in this manner. That said, for the first time EVER I purchased travel insurance for my trip. I also plan on bringing some quick MRE type meals with me to eat in my "socially distanced" room. 73; Mike W7VO
On 08/02/2020 5:57 AM Hippisley, George (Bud), W2RU, (Dir, RK) <w2ru@arrl.org> wrote:
I strongly agree with the concerns expressed by Directors Tiemstra and Baker, and I do not support “forcing" the candidates to come to this “semi” in-person meeting.
As we attempt to go about League business on many levels (Board meetings, HQ staffing, hamfests & conventions, multi-person field organization and operating events), I encourage everyone on ODV to listen to the following free podcast on WebMD. It’s a July 30th “Health Now” interview with infectious disease expert Michael Saag, MD, from Birmingham AL. Both he and his physician son (at NYU) have had the virus — or still have it, depending on how you view “recovery”. It runs about 33 minutes, and every minute of it is worth listening to — but especially when Dr. Saag discusses the long-term nature of what our societal and social responses to this pandemic need to be if we are to survive it.
Two sobering take-aways:
1. While you may think you have recovered from the virus within a few weeks or months, it may continue to irreversibly ravage your insides. So much for the utility of herd immunity!
2. It was six years from first recognized symptoms of HIV/AIDS until there was an effective treatment for prolonging the lives of those who contracted it. We can hope it won’t take that long this time around, but six months it ain’t!
I no longer believe it reasonable to think it will be a matter of “only a few weeks or months” before we can safely travel to/from and gather in enclosed spaces in the ways we were accustomed to. If this turns out to be true, it affects all the activities I listed above — and many more than I haven’t even thought of or that will spring up (think virtual hamfests) in response to Covid-19.
Further, in parallel with the process of selecting a new CEO I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus.
Bud, W2RU _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
After consultation with my wife (and the threat of having to quarantine, in the garage, for 14 days upon return) I have decided not to travel to Denver. I see this as a large risk for the remaining candidates to travel from New England to Colorado and a risk for my fellow board members. We worked very well in our one day virtual board meeting. The PSC is getting work done in our monthly virtual meetings and we can do the same for CEO selection via Zoom. I think we would all prefer in-person, but I'm joining the bunch who say it's not worth the risk. I certainly respect any candidates who wish to stay at home and Zoom in. I welcome the online discussion vs. nothing at all. 73, Matt Holden KØBBC On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 PM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
Not that it matters, but my take is: Selecting the new CEO will most likely be the most important thing I will ever do as an ARRL Director, and that thought has some weight. At this point the decision has been made to do "live" interviews, and I'm sure plane tickets have been purchased by many. Yes, I absolutely agree the risk is not zero, but it is minimal. I believe staff have done what they can to mitigate risk, the rest will be up to individuals to ensure they follow the CDC guidelines; wear a mask when in public, and wash your hands often. We're not attending a wild college pool party here, we will mostly be in a very controlled environment. Business is still being conducted all across the country in this manner.
That said, for the first time EVER I purchased travel insurance for my trip. I also plan on bringing some quick MRE type meals with me to eat in my "socially distanced" room.
73; Mike W7VO
On 08/02/2020 5:57 AM Hippisley, George (Bud), W2RU, (Dir, RK) <w2ru@arrl.org> wrote:
I strongly agree with the concerns expressed by Directors Tiemstra and Baker, and I do not support “forcing" the candidates to come to this “semi” in-person meeting.
As we attempt to go about League business on many levels (Board meetings, HQ staffing, hamfests & conventions, multi-person field organization and operating events), I encourage everyone on ODV to listen to the following free podcast on WebMD. It’s a July 30th “Health Now” interview with infectious disease expert Michael Saag, MD, from Birmingham AL. Both he and his physician son (at NYU) have had the virus — or still have it, depending on how you view “recovery”. It runs about 33 minutes, and every minute of it is worth listening to — but especially when Dr. Saag discusses the long-term nature of what our societal and social responses to this pandemic need to be if we are to survive it.
Two sobering take-aways:
1. While you may think you have recovered from the virus within a few weeks or months, it may continue to irreversibly ravage your insides. So much for the utility of herd immunity!
2. It was six years from first recognized symptoms of HIV/AIDS until there was an effective treatment for prolonging the lives of those who contracted it. We can hope it won’t take that long this time around, but six months it ain’t!
I no longer believe it reasonable to think it will be a matter of “only a few weeks or months” before we can safely travel to/from and gather in enclosed spaces in the ways we were accustomed to. If this turns out to be true, it affects all the activities I listed above — and many more than I haven’t even thought of or that will spring up (think virtual hamfests) in response to Covid-19.
Further, in parallel with the process of selecting a new CEO I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus.
Bud, W2RU _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I told my wife I would self-quarantine in my ham shack for 14 days upon my return. She said "Go to Denver!" ;-) 73; Mike W7VO
On 08/06/2020 1:18 PM Matt Holden <mtholde@gmail.com> wrote:
After consultation with my wife (and the threat of having to quarantine, in the garage, for 14 days upon return) I have decided not to travel to Denver. I see this as a large risk for the remaining candidates to travel from New England to Colorado and a risk for my fellow board members. We worked very well in our one day virtual board meeting. The PSC is getting work done in our monthly virtual meetings and we can do the same for CEO selection via Zoom. I think we would all prefer in-person, but I'm joining the bunch who say it's not worth the risk. I certainly respect any candidates who wish to stay at home and Zoom in. I welcome the online discussion vs. nothing at all. 73, Matt Holden KØBBC
On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 PM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
Not that it matters, but my take is: Selecting the new CEO will most likely be the most important thing I will ever do as an ARRL Director, and that thought has some weight. At this point the decision has been made to do "live" interviews, and I'm sure plane tickets have been purchased by many. Yes, I absolutely agree the risk is not zero, but it is minimal. I believe staff have done what they can to mitigate risk, the rest will be up to individuals to ensure they follow the CDC guidelines; wear a mask when in public, and wash your hands often. We're not attending a wild college pool party here, we will mostly be in a very controlled environment. Business is still being conducted all across the country in this manner.
That said, for the first time EVER I purchased travel insurance for my trip. I also plan on bringing some quick MRE type meals with me to eat in my "socially distanced" room.
73; Mike W7VO
On 08/02/2020 5:57 AM Hippisley, George (Bud), W2RU, (Dir, RK) <w2ru@arrl.org> wrote:
I strongly agree with the concerns expressed by Directors Tiemstra and Baker, and I do not support “forcing" the candidates to come to this “semi” in-person meeting.
As we attempt to go about League business on many levels (Board meetings, HQ staffing, hamfests & conventions, multi-person field organization and operating events), I encourage everyone on ODV to listen to the following free podcast on WebMD. It’s a July 30th “Health Now” interview with infectious disease expert Michael Saag, MD, from Birmingham AL. Both he and his physician son (at NYU) have had the virus — or still have it, depending on how you view “recovery”. It runs about 33 minutes, and every minute of it is worth listening to — but especially when Dr. Saag discusses the long-term nature of what our societal and social responses to this pandemic need to be if we are to survive it.
Two sobering take-aways:
1. While you may think you have recovered from the virus within a few weeks or months, it may continue to irreversibly ravage your insides. So much for the utility of herd immunity!
2. It was six years from first recognized symptoms of HIV/AIDS until there was an effective treatment for prolonging the lives of those who contracted it. We can hope it won’t take that long this time around, but six months it ain’t!
I no longer believe it reasonable to think it will be a matter of “only a few weeks or months” before we can safely travel to/from and gather in enclosed spaces in the ways we were accustomed to. If this turns out to be true, it affects all the activities I listed above — and many more than I haven’t even thought of or that will spring up (think virtual hamfests) in response to Covid-19.
Further, in parallel with the process of selecting a new CEO I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus.
Bud, W2RU _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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This is the most critical decision we as Board will make at this point in time. I’m go for launch as I have faced greater dangers with far worse odds. As Mike says, 14 days in the shack may not be too bad either... On to Denver. Oohrah! 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 6, 2020, at 3:24 PM, Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
I told my wife I would self-quarantine in my ham shack for 14 days upon my return. She said "Go to Denver!" ;-)
73; Mike W7VO
On 08/06/2020 1:18 PM Matt Holden <mtholde@gmail.com> wrote:
After consultation with my wife (and the threat of having to quarantine, in the garage, for 14 days upon return) I have decided not to travel to Denver. I see this as a large risk for the remaining candidates to travel from New England to Colorado and a risk for my fellow board members. We worked very well in our one day virtual board meeting. The PSC is getting work done in our monthly virtual meetings and we can do the same for CEO selection via Zoom. I think we would all prefer in-person, but I'm joining the bunch who say it's not worth the risk. I certainly respect any candidates who wish to stay at home and Zoom in. I welcome the online discussion vs. nothing at all. 73, Matt Holden KØBBC
On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 PM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
Not that it matters, but my take is: Selecting the new CEO will most likely be the most important thing I will ever do as an ARRL Director, and that thought has some weight. At this point the decision has been made to do "live" interviews, and I'm sure plane tickets have been purchased by many. Yes, I absolutely agree the risk is not zero, but it is minimal. I believe staff have done what they can to mitigate risk, the rest will be up to individuals to ensure they follow the CDC guidelines; wear a mask when in public, and wash your hands often. We're not attending a wild college pool party here, we will mostly be in a very controlled environment. Business is still being conducted all across the country in this manner.
That said, for the first time EVER I purchased travel insurance for my trip. I also plan on bringing some quick MRE type meals with me to eat in my "socially distanced" room.
73; Mike W7VO
On 08/02/2020 5:57 AM Hippisley, George (Bud), W2RU, (Dir, RK) <w2ru@arrl.org> wrote:
I strongly agree with the concerns expressed by Directors Tiemstra and Baker, and I do not support “forcing" the candidates to come to this “semi” in-person meeting.
As we attempt to go about League business on many levels (Board meetings, HQ staffing, hamfests & conventions, multi-person field organization and operating events), I encourage everyone on ODV to listen to the following free podcast on WebMD. It’s a July 30th “Health Now” interview with infectious disease expert Michael Saag, MD, from Birmingham AL. Both he and his physician son (at NYU) have had the virus — or still have it, depending on how you view “recovery”. It runs about 33 minutes, and every minute of it is worth listening to — but especially when Dr. Saag discusses the long-term nature of what our societal and social responses to this pandemic need to be if we are to survive it.
Two sobering take-aways:
1. While you may think you have recovered from the virus within a few weeks or months, it may continue to irreversibly ravage your insides. So much for the utility of herd immunity!
2. It was six years from first recognized symptoms of HIV/AIDS until there was an effective treatment for prolonging the lives of those who contracted it. We can hope it won’t take that long this time around, but six months it ain’t!
I no longer believe it reasonable to think it will be a matter of “only a few weeks or months” before we can safely travel to/from and gather in enclosed spaces in the ways we were accustomed to. If this turns out to be true, it affects all the activities I listed above — and many more than I haven’t even thought of or that will spring up (think virtual hamfests) in response to Covid-19.
Further, in parallel with the process of selecting a new CEO I believe we on ODV should immediately begin the process of developing official alternatives to our current ways of doing business, including revision of our By-Laws, Rules & Regulations, Standing Orders, etc., as necessary, to make them responsive and relevant to the long-term presence of a pandemic virus.
Bud, W2RU _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
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participants (8)
-
David Norris -
Hippisley, George (Bud), W2RU, (Dir, RK) -
James Tiemstra -
Mark J Tharp -
Matt Holden -
Michael Ritz -
Mickey Baker -
W2RU - ARRL