19 NOV, 2004 - 1755 CST I have been given permission by the author, Mike Baugh, W8AKF to forward his discussion of Winlink. Mike, an ARRL member, is a former Central Division member who now lives in California but is in the process of returning to Indiana. Rather than repeat what he says, it's all in his message below. Apparently, Mike is one of the few hams - outside of the Winlink development group - who has hands-on experience with Winlink and seems to not be so emotional about it. Ever since I saw the Winlink demonstration last July at ARRL headquarters, I have been underwhelmed by it. But I am also a bit turned off by the florid words of some who oppose making a place for it in our proposed bandwidth petition. I welcome your comments, both pro and con on his message - before we meet in January. - Dick ======================================================================= To: JKutche@lehighcement.com Cc: n9lya@n9lya.com, k9gbr@claysisp.com, w9gig@arrl.org, n9ynf@arrl.net, k9zbm@verizon.net, n9kt@arrl.net Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:06:01 -0800 Subject: Re: RN9 Digital MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4,11-14,16-17,19-20,22,24,26-27,29-31,33,35,37,40-41,44-45,47-49,51-53,58-60,63-64,67-68,70-72,74-77,79-81,83-85,87,89,91-94,96-97,99,101-105,107-109,111,113-114,116-117,119,121-122,125-126,129,131,133-134,136-145 From: mike baugh <w8akf@juno.com> Wow - What a discussion! Should an outsider (for now ONLY) out of respect for Central Division NTS traffic and W9GIG, Friendship of N9LYA, and N9YNF, and condolences for my future SM, enter into this discussion? Jerry says Yes, SOOO here goes ---- for those who don't know me - Licensed in Bloomington,IN in 1948 (age 7), at age 14 joined RN9 (wasn't called that then) Hi-Speed CW NTS net, very active until moved to CA where I'm currently very active in RN6 Hi Speed CW, VHF voice nets. I'm proud of my "CW FOREVER" and NTS T Shirts and 40 WPM CP. The walls of my shack are papered with BPL's, and I have 2 Gold (100 club) NTS medallions. I'm very proud of my 50 year NTS service..... I own WINLINK 2K Software, PACTORIII TNC, and license. I run, and have run for 20 years+ ARRL/AARD HF/VHF/UHF 24/7/365 NTS packet networks (commonly called "SKIPNET BBS'") Shortly, I'll be returning to live in my home in Bloomington, IN, so yes, I have a vested interest. Unfortunately, for those same 20+ years, I've watched our ARRL back the wrong digital horse, although the RIGHT digital horse was donated to them in 1983. The right digital horse is the very same one that brings this E-mail, and ALL Internet traffic to you, the X.25 protocol, "packet". The Amateur version is AX.25. At first, because of my CW friends at HQ, that faction, saw packet as a threat and did not back it, and so the HQ "line" was NTS stay with RTTY. In 1985 the HQ love affair with Vic Poor, W5SWM began, and the HQ "line" was NTS use AMTOR. When that failed to materialize, then came APLINK, ditto with it, then APLINK 600, ditto with it, then it was G-TOR, ditto with it, then P-TOR, then PACTOR, then PACTORII (currently illegal in FCC land, the max bandwidth exceeds 500 Hz) and the latest HQ edit -- NTS go with PACTORIII with WINLINK 2K software. Also currently illegal (max bandwidth is 6 times that allowed by FCC) The reasons why all these xxTOR technologies failed so badly were 2 fold. They didn't work as advertised, gave no acknowledgement to NTS - Op, and they, and their equipment were/are expensive. Secondary reason for xxTOR technologies failure was that their thru put was so much slower that the plain vanilla 300 baud HF "PACKET" technology. Another reason I've heard for using WINLINK is that it gateways directly into the ALMIGHTY Internet, "Hey" the packet BBS programs have had that capability since 1989. I paid $1200 for my WINLINK SCS (sole source) PTC-II TNC, it "only" works on 2 expensive Kenwood Solid state switched Transceivers I got mine for $2100, After I paid the license fee ($250) for WINLINK, I learned it would only run on a Pentium 4, 3 GHz computer. So there is another $1100 for the computer. Conversely: In 1985, X.25 (packet) began to evolve running parallel to Internet improvements, with 4 software packages starting then, and still going now, all have been donated for ham use (no $250 licensing). Today that same packet, MSYS software that Jerry runs, will run on a circa 1981 XT clone type computer, (yep the ones everyone throws in the thrash as ancient boat anchors) and everything since. $0 !!!!! Packet also runs on any of the 650,000 plus TNC's that have been produced since 1985 now available on E-Bay for $20 (yeah that's the one that is collecting dust in your closet) Radio-wise, HF packet will run on a TS-520, FT-101, Swan, almost ALL old tube radio's built after 1960. I picked up a TS-520 at Hamfest here for $50 in working order. Although My Purdue practical math may be failing me, I make that $4,650 to set up my WINLINK PACTORIII HF port, and $70 to set up my Packet HF port. Guess that's why there are only 4 WINLINK HF stations in the US - verses 71 HF Packet stations on our nets alone ? By the way, each of these 71 HF packet stations has an OPEN VHF port, which is connected to the local VHF digital node strings like NET/ROM, APRS, DXNODE, SEDAN, TEXNET, THENET, FLEXNET etc. This for easy entry of NTS traffic at any node or digi point along the line. The thru put of WINLINK/PACTORIII on HF is identical of Packet HF. OK now the summary - How do your NTS folks use the existing HF packet network to handle traffic. Answer - After a CW, or VHF voice NTS session, any leftover traffic can be entered on the nearest Packet node/BBS be it VHF or HF, and it WILL give you an instant acknowledgement, and route. And unlike All the failed WINLINK NTS mail - it WILL get there. Note; all Packet BBS sysop's I know of in the Central Division are AVID NTS traffic handlers, and deliverer's !! Here in RN6 land this is a NO-Brainer, and sure beats the NTS adage "(msg number XXXXX ) and I'll put the text in an E-mail to you" which seems to be prevalent these days on VHF, and CW nets Note: Here in 6 land we use the donated dumb operator "OUTPOST" NTS message entry fill in the blanks software. It's SOOO easy. As Jerry contests, to set up a WINLINK equivalent to the 8 existing HF packet radio servers in Indiana alone - as ARRL HQ "recommends" - I certainly hope the ARRL will send the $60,000 it will cost! My comment taken from N0IA's (WINLINK Promoter) message to HQ of 10-16 after Hurricane Charley "The WINLINK Server and ISP went out just before the hurricane hit Captiva Island, and was out for 34 hours". Since WINLINK relies 100% on WINLINK SERVER (read that INTERNET) to deliver ALL messages along with each INTERNET ISP along the line, that means WINLINK was out of commission for this entire disaster in Florida, while SEDAN packet network handled thousands of WX reports, SITREP, and H&W messages even though 4 of it's nodes blew away (source: SEDAN Administrator Tom Nolan KD4MWO) My personal message to HQ is another recantation of Ronald Reagan to Jimmy Carter, "There you go AGAIN" ! Soapbox off Thanks for listening 73 Mike Baugh P.E., C.N.E., C.Q.E W8AKF Trustee, Hoosier Radio Society