[arrl-odv:28645] Siddall's FCC filing
I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well. This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community. 73; Mike W7VO
Is this not a all or none in regard to the filing? Rick mentioned the 60 day extension is up so we would need to modify the motion somehow, to change what the filing is, or ask David to submit a document that does not follow the board directive.? Or am I missing something here? Mark, HDX On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:33 AM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well.
This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community.
73;
Mike
W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but the bandplanning committee hasn’t even had its first meeting yet (having only been formed yesterday). Even if this weren’t true, bandplanning is usually an extended process. For anyone who doesn’t believe this, you can ask Ned AA7A what it’s been like trying to find appropriate recommendations just about harmonious existence for FT8 and FT4. The “wide” bandwidth modes add an additional layer of complexity. There is no “extra” space on our bands below 30 MHz. For those who will be attending hamfests in the near future, please don’t promise any particular date for the outcome of the bandplanning committee. Yes, it is a step forward for a committee to be formed, but I expect that we will have a long road ahead of us before we will have recommendations. In particular, our now-overdue filing to FCC will be much more overdue if we wait to have the bandplanning committee’s recommendations before filing. 73, Greg, K0GW On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well.
This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community.
73;
Mike
W7VO
I would absolutely not recommend that we hold off. The reason being that if we hold off, once the 60 day extension expires, the FCC is likely to just enact 16-239 as-is which is not what we voted on and approved in July. As for Lor and Bonnie, they are always going to ask for the most spectrum for their modes. Meanwhile we represent all amateurs and all modes and need to balance the interests of all amateurs. It should also be noted that Lor is but one voice and that cooler heads within ARSFI are willing to work with us. So I would ignore Lor and Bonnie for now, and press on with the band planning effort. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:33 AM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote:
I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well.
This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community.
73;
Mike
W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I agree with Ria. Bud, W2RU
On Aug 27, 2019, at 12:08 PM, rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
I would absolutely not recommend that we hold off. The reason being that if we hold off, once the 60 day extension expires, the FCC is likely to just enact 16-239 as-is which is not what we voted on and approved in July.
As for Lor and Bonnie, they are always going to ask for the most spectrum for their modes. Meanwhile we represent all amateurs and all modes and need to balance the interests of all amateurs.
It should also be noted that Lor is but one voice and that cooler heads within ARSFI are willing to work with us.
So I would ignore Lor and Bonnie for now, and press on with the band planning effort.
73 Ria, N2RJ
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:33 AM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net <mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>> wrote: I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well.
This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community.
73;
Mike
W7VO
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv <https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv> _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I would absolutely not recommend that we hold off. Agree! We've got to move forward. This will drag on forever. We are going to take heat either way. Been there, done that going back to the original symbol rate petition years ago. Let's get this filing done, which is now past due, or this will backfire even more with the FCC wondering what the heck is going on with ARRL. We can continue to address band planning. 73Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com> To: Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Sent: Tue, Aug 27, 2019 11:08 am Subject: [arrl-odv:28648] Re: Siddall's FCC filing I would absolutely not recommend that we hold off. The reason being that if we hold off, once the 60 day extension expires, the FCC is likely to just enact 16-239 as-is which is not what we voted on and approved in July. As for Lor and Bonnie, they are always going to ask for the most spectrum for their modes. Meanwhile we represent all amateurs and all modes and need to balance the interests of all amateurs. It should also be noted that Lor is but one voice and that cooler heads within ARSFI are willing to work with us. So I would ignore Lor and Bonnie for now, and press on with the band planning effort. 73Ria, N2RJ On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:33 AM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote: I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well. This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community. 73;MikeW7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
I agree with Ria. We need to proceed with the filing as planned for reasons noted. The Band Planning Committee can then thoughtfully proceed with getting the potential interference issues addressed and get the needed spectrum allocated by working with the cooler heads at ARSFI, the Winlink users and the narrow band groups. As I stated earlier, we don’t need to drag any of this out WRT the band planning or this filing. 73 David A. Norris, K5UZ Director, Delta Division Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 27, 2019, at 11:08 AM, "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:
I would absolutely not recommend that we hold off. The reason being that if we hold off, once the 60 day extension expires, the FCC is likely to just enact 16-239 as-is which is not what we voted on and approved in July.
As for Lor and Bonnie, they are always going to ask for the most spectrum for their modes. Meanwhile we represent all amateurs and all modes and need to balance the interests of all amateurs.
It should also be noted that Lor is but one voice and that cooler heads within ARSFI are willing to work with us.
So I would ignore Lor and Bonnie for now, and press on with the band planning effort.
73 Ria, N2RJ
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:33 AM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net> wrote: I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well.
This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community.
73;
Mike
W7VO
_______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
“There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well”. Mike: Since wide band data is not yet legal, what groups (besides WINLINK et al) think there is an issue? Maybe prospective groups or proponents? Is it RTTY guys who think this limits them? Is their concern that they will need to stop what they are currently doing? If so, that doesn’t make sense unless they are using older RTTY shifts or non-conventional speeds. They were/are limited to 300 baud now anyway. And band planning is not something the FCC wants to deal with in minutiae anyway. The FCC trend is “you work it out yourselves – have at it. Leave us be”. And besides, the idea is a step at a time. I see 20 – 25 KHZ someday on 40 for example unless there are real problems we learn about. Get 300 baud rate limit trashed and ease into wideband spaces. Otherwise Rappaport’s team will likely prevail for now and hams might get nothing. Our compromise is the best path forward. The fact that no one likes it is not bad news. As judges often tell me, it is a good settlement when no one is happy. Give me a call if you like at my office to chat. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michael Ritz Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 11:34 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:28645] Siddall's FCC filing I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well. This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community. 73; Mike W7VO
OK, I'll withdraw. I think I have most of the irate people here calmed down, at least for now.... ;-) 73; Mike W7VO
On August 27, 2019 at 11:12 AM "Bob Famiglio, K3RF" <RBFamiglio@Verizon.net> wrote:
“There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well”.
Mike:
Since wide band data is not yet legal, what groups (besides WINLINK et al) think there is an issue? Maybe prospective groups or proponents? Is it RTTY guys who think this limits them? Is their concern that they will need to stop what they are currently doing? If so, that doesn’t make sense unless they are using older RTTY shifts or non-conventional speeds. They were/are limited to 300 baud now anyway.
And band planning is not something the FCC wants to deal with in minutiae anyway. The FCC trend is “you work it out yourselves – have at it. Leave us be”.
And besides, the idea is a step at a time. I see 20 – 25 KHZ someday on 40 for example unless there are real problems we learn about. Get 300 baud rate limit trashed and ease into wideband spaces. Otherwise Rappaport’s team will likely prevail for now and hams might get nothing. Our compromise is the best path forward. The fact that no one likes it is not bad news. As judges often tell me, it is a good settlement when no one is happy. Give me a call if you like at my office to chat.
Bob Famiglio, K3RF
Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division
610-359-7300
www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF
From: arrl-odv On Behalf Of Michael Ritz Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 11:34 AM To: arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org Subject: [arrl-odv:28645] Siddall's FCC filing
I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well.
This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community.
73;
Mike
W7VO
Hello Mike I have to disagree, we need to have Mr. Siddall file what we agreed to at the Board meeting. The issue of an increaseto the 97.221(b) sub-bands is something we cannot simply arrive at overnight. This will take time and any proposalsfor changes should be allowed to be seen by the amateur community. The Bandplan Committee will need to take moretime than we have available to file these latest comments. The worst thing we could do is to make a unilateral recommendationthat has not been properly reviewed. Besides there are far more than just two items that need to be considered. With regards to band plan changes, it would make sense to make sense to communicate to the amateur communitythat a review of the HF band plans is underway. 73, Kermit W9XA On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 10:33:41 AM CDT, Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net wrote: I am going to recommend that we hold off on Counsel's FCC submission until the new bandplan committee puts in a recommendation on the new digital bandplan as part of the submission. The part of the current proposal related to to lumping all wide-band digital signals into with the ACDS segment has gotten a lot of backlash from up here in the NW Division, and not only from the ARES/Winlink folks. There are other wide-band groups out there upset as well. This is all due to Lor's comments sent out to all the Winlink users, but it has also stirred up a hornet's nest in the entire digital community. 73; Mike W7VO _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
participants (9)
-
Bob Famiglio, K3RF -
David Norris -
G Widin -
k5ur＠aol.com -
Kermit Carlson -
Mark J Tharp -
Michael Ritz -
rjairam＠gmail.com -
W2RU - ARRL