Understood, but you may have missed my specific point which may have spawned the response. I was not criticizing your VEC points - I agree with them. But, I would be remiss to have not responded in view of the history of that specific Mark. I know you are right regarding the VEC issues, but the point I commented on is not a pedantic argument and it needs to be understood because details matter. Our "Trademark " Committee of old took the same, unsupported (by any professional) position on the Leagues trademarks in their report a few years ago. They took a similar view that Trademarks were really unimportant in the scheme of things, and we need not be concerned with registrations. Yeah, you should read it as you will have the same reaction as I did. I know ODV is private, but I assumed you did not purposely substitute organization for Association to make a point. I have spent much time consulting with Staff over this point recently - a Zoom seminar for 2 hours on trademark use and I emphasized these details- specifically use of The National Association for Amateur Radio - a mark we do not have yet and will need to work hard to get. And I think your assertion about market is relevant, but you have some of it backwards Mickey. Without trademarks (used correctly) protecting good will in a sector, market position is taken intentional or otherwise, or fades naturally because of consumer confusions and erosion. I live in that world as part of my practice, every week if not more often. Trademarks are the box we build in advance when possible, into which we place the hard work of generating market position or good will as we build it to keep it from running out the sides, so to speak. We agree on the needs you expressed; other than the importance of the details I raise on that one issue. On that we disagree. If we mutilate our Mark (a legal term), we may lose the similar existing marks. I am not suggesting your change on ODV will do that, but other slips otherwise will. History of use of Marks, or more accurately, failure to do the right thing by our League in the past proves that. At your convenience, I cordially suggest you call me whenever you like to discuss this as I know your concerns are genuine. I owe you a call anyway about the Ham Radio Repeater ham lease issue you raised about which I am always happy to share my experiences. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF From: Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) Sent: Monday, November 08, 2021 2:21 PM To: Famiglio, Bob, K3RF (VD, AD) <RBFamiglio@verizon.net>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:32939] Re: Electronic submission & payment for ARRL VEC Exams I appreciate Bob's pedantic legal view of the world, but my language and emphasis was intentional written as sent. This is a confidential, internal list. There are trademarks, slogans and rhetoric - but this is a call to action for ALL of US to do whatever WE can do to stop the erosion in our value proposition. (Emphasis again, intentional, Bob!) Specifically, here, where "free" testing has taken an unreasonable market share from the ARRL VEC team. We have this leverage. It isn't seen as heavy handed - everyone I've asked to do this has complied. If you look at VEC history, ARRL has led the way in volunteer testing - much of the question pool comes from our VEC. I would hope that we could be as aggressive in promoting and defending our market positions as defending our newly minted trademark! Without market position, trademarks don't matter! -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org <mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> > on behalf of Bob Famiglio, K3RF via arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Date: Monday, November 8, 2021 at 1:47 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> > Subject: [arrl-odv:32939] Re: Electronic submission & payment for ARRL VEC Exams As to Mickey's comment below, : "THE national organization for amateur radio". ?? I know this was likely a slip of the keyboard, but we are The National Association for Amateur Radio from a trademark stance. If we accidently mutilate our slogan, it may come back to bite us in the future. Here and there is OK if not published that way to the public, (ODV is not) but we are prosecuting a Federal Trademark application uphill to get that mark. We do not have protection now for that phrase despite what some may have thought. This is just a reminder in case anyone is writing to someone outside and used that specific moniker we need to own outright. Our mark is a Proper name not a description. We need to plan for and be ready for upcoming You Tube or other bloggers who will claim they are a National Association (or even an organization) for Amateur Radio. And we are doing what we can to own the future in that regard to the extent we can, in my view. Bob Famiglio, K3RF Vice Director - ARRL Atlantic Division 610-359-7300 www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF <http://www.QRZ.com/db/K3RF> . . . . . . _______________________________________ On 11/3/21 12:22 PM, Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) wrote: Huge step forward! That removes the "timeliness" objection that the other popular VECs raise. One thing I'm doing when I get hamfest applications is to watch for those who list "Non-ARRL VEC exams." In this case, I ALWAYS check with the organizer/submitter and remind them of two issues: 1. If the FCC starts collecting fees before the date of your hamfest, the ARRL program to pay the fee on behalf of your successful candidates under 18 is not available. 2. ARRL gives an additional $50 gift certificate for hamfest where ARRL VEC exams are given. The VEC is a major ARRL value that we undersell. Few clubs realize that they can take $5 per test to offset their expenses. If we market a bit more emphatically, we can gain VEC market share and perhaps capture incremental membership. Let's make sure everyone knows that we are THE national organization for amateur radio. -- Mickey Baker, N4MB Director, Southeastern Division ARRL Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org <mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> on behalf of Roderick, Rick, K5UR via arrl-odv <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 12:42 PM To: Tharp, Mark, KB7HDX (VD, NW) <mailto:kb7hdx@gmail.com> <kb7hdx@gmail.com>, Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <mailto:dminster@arrl.org> <dminster@arrl.org> Cc: arrl-odv <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:32934] Re: Electronic submission & payment for ARRL VEC Exams Great news, David, and thanks info, Mark. Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: Mark J Tharp <mailto:kb7hdx@gmail.com> <kb7hdx@gmail.com> To: Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <mailto:dminster@arrl.org> <dminster@arrl.org> Cc: arrl-odv <mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org> <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2021 11:31 am Subject: [arrl-odv:32933] Re: Electronic submission & payment for ARRL VEC Exams We held a paper session last Wednesday evening. I scanned the paperwork, and sent it on Thursday morning, first thing. 0627 West coast, 0936 HQ time. Less than 2-1/2 hours later, callsigns were showing up on ULS. I notified the new hams at 0900 West coast time. Our VEC is doing a great job. Also, the FRN number is almost issued before you submit the form now as well from the FCC. We had to register one person the night of the session. Mark, HDX On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 9:21 AM Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <dminster@arrl.org <mailto:dminster@arrl.org> > wrote: Here's a great message about a recent test session in MO. It is indicative of what is possible when going through ARRL VEC for exam processing. There are examination teams we need to be more deliberate getting in front of to ensue they understand what is possible and supported by ARRL VEC. There's no reason to continue hearing "stories" about how antiquated and slow our VEC is. David From: Ken W0KAH <sabre49@gmail.com <mailto:sabre49@gmail.com> > Date: Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 4:51 PM Subject: [VE] Electronic submission & payment for ARRL VEC Exams To: <VE@scarc.groups.io <mailto:VE@scarc.groups.io> > A group of four ARRL VEs administered an open exam session at the St. Charles County EOC at 1PM today (Sept. 29). Four candidates tested for Technician and all four passed and were issued CSCEs. This was a traditional paper exam. All the exam paperwork was scanned to pdf and sublitted to the ARRL VEC by email about an hour later. The lead VE called the ARRL VEC and provided fee payment by credit card and retained the payments received from the candidates. Sit down; their licenses were live in the FCC ULS by 4:30 PM CDT today (the same day)!!! All I can say is WOW that was FAST! Ken W0KAH Proud to be a part of that team _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrlorg <mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv
