Dick we have an opportunity to format the printed books in a thoughtful way. So who will speak for the coordinator Community? Take me to your leader😄 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 18, 2016, at 8:13 AM, Norton, Richard, N6AA <richardjnorton@gmail.com<mailto:richardjnorton@gmail.com>> wrote: Tom, I believe their complaint is that favorable publicity is now given to uncoordinated repeaters, which eliminates incentive to be coordinated. I imagine that there are regions of the USA where there are adequate frequencies for those wanting repeater pairs, and it really isn't important that a particular repeater be officially "coordinated." In Los Angeles, there are not enough frequencies, and most of those desirous of a frequency pair wait for approval before activating. Note that a repeater pair can seem perfectly operational to the group using it, but interfere with another group's machine, and the reverse not be true. In Los Angeles, repeater coordination is still important. The complaints about the directory apply to the printed book. People who use the book may not have access to the web. Note also, that the older printed directories were in a usable format where there was no problem. The change to listing only by city name is what they are complaining about. May I have permission to forward your reply to K6IYK? 73, Dick On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 4:48 AM, Gallagher, Tom, NY2RF <tgallagher@arrl.org<mailto:tgallagher@arrl.org>> wrote: Dick: Putting aside the reality that our current publishing method for the RD is economically unsustainable in a declining paper book market, I am having difficulty understanding what alienates coordination groups: 1. The proposed directory INCLUDES every bit of information which prior directories contained—all reporting coordinated repeaters will be listed and identified as coordinated in bold type with full credit to the coordinating organization. 2. The directory will also list all repeaters worldwide, coordinated or not. 3. The directory will be published in the familiar pocket version, in the new and popular desk version and on the RFinder App—which is available for $10.00 per year, LESS than the price of either published book. 4. The App will be updated continuously for changes, corrections, etc. The repeater community will always have the most current data available on line. Each year, the paper publication will be updated with the latest information. Coordinators can update COORDINATED repeaters continuously as well. 5. The App will also include a number of other features: a. RFinder integrates directly with EchoLink on both Android and iPhone and provides the ability to share repeater check-ins on Facebook, Twitter, and APRS. b. RFinder is integrated with RT Systems and CHIRP radio programming applications and has a routing feature<http://routes.rfinder.net/> that lets users find repeaters worldwide over a given route. c. RFinder also includes the ability to report radio jamming anywhere. Those without a device or subscription can file reports<http://jamming.rfinder.net/> online. d. Those responsible for coordinating anti-jamming activities also can request access<http://jamcoordinator.rfinder.net/> to view jamming reports for their area. e. RFinder App will include a daily data feed of digital repeaters. Digital repeaters are now categorized in RFinder by network. 6. I can’t understand how anybody can be alienated by a publication with vastly more features for the same price or less. When we consider that the paper directory is declining each year, ARRL has taken steps to transition the directory and all related repeater activities to a sustainable, modern future platform. This preserves a platform in the future for coordination activity. 7. Since our announcement, I have heard the most outrageous claims by repeater coordination groups and their surrogates. I have variously received emails claiming that the RD will no longer carry coordinated repeaters (NOT TRUE), is now being outsourced (NOT TRUE), is going to be outsourced to India (NOT TRUE), is going to be outsourced to China (NOT TRUE). These communications do not flatter their authors because all features were described in the announcement communications documents. Such comments reflects poorly—and unfairly—on the entire Amateur Radio Community. The information was also summarized in today’s ARRL letter. 8. RFinder is working with coordinators in New England to explain the benefits of RFinder—and with some success. RFinder is prepared to cooperate in designing the presentation and other aspects of the directory. 9. Specifically in response to your question: For those wishing to know which repeaters are available in Los Angeles, bring up the RFinder App in Los Angeles and set the radii at whichever distance you wish, and it will show you, irrespective of city designation or listing, exactly which repeaters—coordinated and uncoordinated—are available to you. PL’s and other relevant features included. You can set the range either from your physical locale automatically, or specify another locale manually. What you see featured in the directory proposal is what the people who buy our directory want. RFinder is endorsed throughout the world: - RFinder is the Official repeater Directory of Radio Amateurs Canada. of Radio Society of Great Britain, of Amateur Radio Society Italia, of Federación Mexicana de Radioexperimentadores, of Deutscher Amateur Radio Club, of Unión de Radioaficionados Españoles, of L’association Réseau des Émetteurs Français, of Rede dos Emissores Portugueses, of Liga de Amadores Brasilieros de Radio Emissão. This is the direction that the world is moving: why can’t our coordinators get on the train? Tom From: arrl-odv [mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>] On Behalf Of Norton, Richard, N6AA Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 12:54 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:25942] Repeater Directory - RFinder - Coordinator Distress Here is more feedback concerning the League's present Repeater Directory and RFinder. activity. Repeater coordination is a relatively thankless job. Realistically, it looks like the League has now probably mortally alienated the repeater coordination contingent, and will likely hasten the demise of some coordination efforts. It is likely to be a tough sell to convince some uncoordinated repeater owners of the desirability of coordination. When they get adequate publicity, missing only an asterisk in the ARRL directory, this is likely to become nearly impossible. The suggestion that the directory now contains a group of prospects, ripe for harvesting into the coordination basket, will not be taken as being sincere. The complaints about the editorial changes refer to the listing of repeaters by city/village/mountain-name in an entire state. If it was on the east coast, California would stretch from New England to Georgia. To list repeaters by city name in such a large region as that, or California, suggests that a user should use a map of where he is, and then check each city, one-by-one, in the area. There are only 6 repeaters listed for Los Angeles. How is any visiting ham expected to know to check "Oat Mountain" for some of the possibly usable nearby repeater? I don't know where this idea of listing repeaters came from. I hope that the League will put pressure on RFinder to remedy some of the complaints in the attached letter. What next? 73, Dick, N6AA ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Fortney, James T. <Jim@fortney.org<mailto:Jim@fortney.org>> Date: Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 2:06 PM Subject: Coordination To: "Richard J. Norton" <richardjnorton@gmail.com<mailto:richardjnorton@gmail.com>> Dick - Let me begin by making sure you understand that my communications on this subject are because I am a 220SMA Officer and long term supporter of the Amateur Radio Coordination activities. I do not have my Section Manager hat on when discussing this subject. Attached is one of the response letters I have seen and for the most part coves all the points of which I would want you to be aware. The one additional item I would like to point out is that whoever decided to make the format and editorial changes to the Repeater Directory for this year does not understand how the manual is used by the average Amateur. I believe the redesign will make the sales of the Repeater Directory fall significantly, maybe that was part of the bigger plan. I'll call so we can discuss your attitude about getting involved in this anti-coordination effort by the League. - JimF K6IYK -------------------------------------------- James T. Fortney Jim@Fortney.org<mailto:Jim@Fortney.org> -------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv