My understanding is that they're "done" in terms of how the fees have been allotted. However, charging a fee for a service that doesn't conclude successfully seems wrong. It isn't reasonable to expect that a vanity requestor could know that their application will not be successful because of the requested callsign becoming unavailable during the process. We may want a formal clarification from FCC on the issue and then consider a formal request for reconsideration. Mr Siddall would know how to possibly navigate this. David From: Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE) <mbaker@arrl.org> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 10:49 AM To: Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <dminster@arrl.org>; Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:32708] Re: Fwd: RE: Re: Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022
From what I understand, the FCC understand that they must recover administrative costs under the RAYBAUMS act. Amateur radio is excluded from regulatory fees, but not from administrative fees.
I honestly believe that this was an oversight by our legislators - they should have exempted amateur radio completely. A simple change in this act could exclude amateur radio from both - the overall revenue is minor and an appeal by our legislative team, pointing out that we are a non-profit organization who is trying to correct this oversight as far as it affects minors with our own funds. Have we considered approaching this issue from this perspective? Thoughts? Mickey N4MB Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <dminster@arrl.org<mailto:dminster@arrl.org>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 4:56:14 PM To: Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:32708] Re: Fwd: RE: Re: Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022 Yes, as we understand it, FCC will retain the fees for any transactions whether they are successful or not. With regard to a vanity call, it will be important for applicants to submit numerous options so that one will go through! I personally think it is outrageous. We should be pushing back on this at some point. For sure we will hear from members once they encounter this situation. David From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> On Behalf Of Michael Ritz Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 6:19 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:32704] Fwd: RE: Re: Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022 (See below) In advance of a response from David Minster, here is the "bottom line" answer from Maria: "The FCC will retain the processing fee for every application submitted." My guess is that this will ease competition for some 1X2 and 2X1 callsigns that come up. 73; Mike W7VO ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Somma, Maria, AB1FM" <msomma@arrl.org<mailto:msomma@arrl.org>> To: "Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW)" <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>> Date: 08/17/2021 3:05 PM Subject: RE: Re: [arrl-odv:32701] Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022 Hi Mike - David M. just asked a similar question. I'm guessing he will answer the ODV shortly. Here was my answer to his question: The $35 fee is the application (processing) fee. The application's outcome, whether the request is granted or dismissed, is irrelevant. The FCC will retain the processing fee for every application submitted. An individual can apply for a refund but the FCC stated it would have to be extenuating circumstances for the refund to be considered. ADDITIONAL INFO ABOUT THE OLD VANITY FEE: The prior FCC vanity call sign fees were regulatory fees and were therefore handled differently. Refunds were allowed on the regulatory fees if requested by the applicant. I hope you are doing well! Sincerely, Maria Somma, AB1FM ARRL VEC Manager ARRL The National Association for Amateur Radio(r) 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111-1494 USA Phone: 1-888-277-5289 FAX: 1-860-594-0339 Email: msomma@arrl.org<mailto:msomma@arrl.org> ARRL Web: www.arrl.org<http://www.arrl.org/> From: Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 5:33 PM To: Somma, Maria, AB1FM <msomma@arrl.org<mailto:msomma@arrl.org>> Subject: Fwd: Re: [arrl-odv:32701] Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022 Maria; Can you help clear up the question below? Thanks! 73; Mike W7VO ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Baker, Mickey, N4MB (Dir, SE)" <mbaker@arrl.org<mailto:mbaker@arrl.org>> To: "Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)" <rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>>, "Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW)" <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Date: 08/17/2021 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:32701] Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022 It was refundable if you were unsuccessful. Another form, several weeks wait... The way I understand this is that the fee will only be presented to the applicant if the license is otherwise ready to issue. That way=, there's no refunds. This is "word of mouth" from another VEC. Maria Somma is the ultimate authority at ARRL. -- Mickey Baker Director, Southeastern Division ARRL Phone (561) 320-2775 Email: n4mb@arrl.org<mailto:n4mb@arrl.org> From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> on behalf of rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com> <rjairam@gmail.com<mailto:rjairam@gmail.com>> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 2:50 PM To: Ritz, Mike, W7VO, (Dir, NW) <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:32701] Re: Fwd: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022 That's a good question but not uncharted territory. When we had the $20 vanity fee, was it collected if you were unsuccessful? That may be the same scenario. 73 Ria N2RJ/W4 On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 2:36 PM Michael Ritz <w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net>> wrote: The below came out from the ARRL this morning, and inquiring minds want to know: Does anybody know what happens to the $35 sent in for vanity callsign applications that are denied? Is there still a mechanism still in place for those to apply for reimbursement? Some people apply for 1X2 or 2X1 callsigns where there is competition for those callsign. If the call(s) they want goes to somebody else they have to keep trying for new available callsigns and paying the $35 fees for each application until they win one. Will they be able to apply to get their money back for the ones they lose out on, (as it was before), or does the FCC now get to keep the money? 73; Mike w7VO
---------- Original Message ---------- From: ARRL Web site <memberlist@www.arrl.org<mailto:memberlist@www.arrl.org>> To: w7vo@comcast.net<mailto:w7vo@comcast.net> Date: 08/17/2021 9:47 AM Subject: ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022
SB QST @ ARL $ARLB021 ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022
ZCZC AG21 QST de W1AW ARRL Bulletin 21 ARLB021 From ARRL Headquarters Newington CT August 17, 2021 To all radio amateurs
SB QST ARL ARLB021 ARLB021 FCC Application Fees Unlikely to Go into Effect Until 2022
The schedule of FCC amateur radio application fees likely will not go into effect before 2022. FCC staff confirmed during a recent virtual meeting with Volunteer Examiner Coordinators (VECs) that the agency is still working on the necessary changes to the Universal Licensing System (ULS) software and other processes and procedures that must be in place before it starts collecting fees from amateur applicants. Earlier this year, the FCC said it would not start collecting fees from amateur applicants before this Summer. The new estimate is that the fees won't go into effect until early next year.
Once it's effective, the $35 application fee will apply to new, modification (upgrade and sequential call sign change), renewal, and vanity call sign applications. All fees will be per application. Administrative update applications, such as those to change a licensee's name, mailing, or email address, will be exempt from fees. ARRL VEC manager Maria Somma, AB1FM, said Volunteer Examiner (VE) teams will not face the burden of collecting the $35 fee.
"Once the FCC application fee takes effect, new and upgrade applicants will pay the exam session fee to the VE team as usual, but they'll pay the $35 application fee directly to the FCC using the FCC Pay Fees system," she explained. When the FCC receives the examination information from the VEC, it will email a link with payment instructions to each successful candidate who then will have 10 days from the date of the email to pay.
The FCC Pay Fees system can be accessed at, https://apps2.fcc.gov/Batch_Filer/login.cfm .
After the fee is paid and the FCC has processed an application, examinees will receive a second email from the FCC with a link to their official license. The link will be good for 30 days. Licensees also will be able to view, download, and print official license copies by logging into their FCC ULS account. The FCC no longer provides printed licenses.
Licensees can log into the ULS with their 10-digit FRN (FCC Registration Number) and password at any time to view and manage their license and application, print their license, and update anything in their FCC license record, including adding an email address.
FEE SCHEDULE:
INDIVIDUALS -
$35 FEE: New, modification (upgrade and sequential call sign change), renewal, and vanity call sign applications. All fees will be per application.
NO FEE: Administrative updates, such as a change of name, mailing or email address, or license cancellation.
AMATEUR RADIO CLUBS -
$35 FEE: New, renewal, trustee change, and vanity call sign applications. All fees will be per application.
NO FEE: Administrative updates, such as a change of name, mailing or email address, or license cancellation. NNNN /EX
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