Pre-LoTW there were hams who explicitly or implicitly asked for payment for a QSL. Greenstamps. I don’t recall us doing anything about them. The new part here is that the QSL process is automated so the payment/extortion process is different. Let’s not conflate the QSL payment issue with the fully-automated QSO issue. Frederick (Rick) Niswander, PhD, CPA, CGMA Professor of Accounting East Carolina University Greenville, NC 27858 From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of rjairam@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:11 AM To: Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <dminster@arrl.org> Cc: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org>; Vallio, Bob, W6RGG (2nd VP) <rbvallio@gmail.com> Subject: [arrl-odv:31311] Re: LoTW user requiring a PayPal payment before posting a log entry This email originated from outside ECU. Regarding DXpeditions - DX foundations require LoTW within a certain period of time as a condition of funding. You do get an early LoTW upload as a perk which is OK by their rules. I don’t suggest altering that dynamic. But when it’s blatant pay me for a QSO is where I have an issue. Especially where the QSO is against DXCC rules (fully automated is 100% against DXCC rules now). KC0W says he just likes QSL cards. UA4WHX is a different matter. Vlad wants the ability to edit/remove QSOs. I suspect this is to punish/blacklist people who don’t abide by some of his arcane rules. It is a fine line to walk. But do we simply ignore all the rules to please people? Or do we do targeted enforcement? Or some other solution? At what point does DXCC become so devalued because nobody really cares about the rules anymore? Ria N2RJ On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:58 AM Minster, David NA2AA (CEO) <dminster@arrl.org<mailto:dminster@arrl.org>> wrote: This has become SOP for many DXpeditions as well. Make payment for contacts made and choose mail, bureau, and/or LoTW. Some guys charge you for the card and add the ‘option’ of an LoTW now that you’ve paid. OR, you need to pay to get the LoTW confirmation now, versus in 2 years or so when they upload their entire log. Ria is correct, CO8LY runs FT8 robots on multiple bands simultaneously running up insane totals on the bands. (As does N1UL by the way, whom I have had email exchanges with in the past year when his robots have run amuck) I don’t know how we would implement this without ramifications. We run the risk of creating more KC0W or UA4WHX type characters who are already out there, racking up hundreds of thousands of DXpedition contacts – and bad mouthing LoTW all the while. And worse, punish the simple guys who just want the confirmation for their DXCC. David From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>> On Behalf Of Bob Vallio Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 11:01 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@arrl.org>> Subject: [arrl-odv:31304] LoTW user requiring a PayPal payment before posting a log entry There's a note about CO8LY in today's issue of The Daily DX accusing him of doing so. I'm not sure if there is an action we need to take, but it surely seems that the possibility of voiding the LoTW certificate of anyone who uses the system for personal gain is a consideration. 73, Bob W6RGG _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org<mailto:arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org> https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Freflector.arrl.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Farrl-odv&data=04%7C01%7Cniswanderf%40ecu.edu%7C22b391766599495ee6bd08d8858aef3a%7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8%7C0%7C1%7C637406179057914344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=6tGWu0pIpddGk%2F161Mq8uzz771ad6j5Rt1xn6wHS23s%3D&reserved=0>