Dave, I believe that you are wrong. Our General Counsel never counseled us to give permission to RHR. The email which you refer to [arrl-odv:23901] said that the advertiser should ask for our permission and we then had the option of either giving it or not giving it depending on what we want to do. The email NEVER said that we should grant permission. That is a policy decision and is not within the realm of the General Counsel. Might I suggest that you reread Chris’ email. I notice that your response doesn’t answer my question to Harold and you. That is, have you already given approval to RHR to use the logos? This is a policy decision and should be dealt with by the Board, not management. I ask once again, have you given permission to RHR to use our trademarked logos? It’s a simple question requiring a yes or no answer. Mike From: Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 8:45 PM To: Lisenco, Mike (DIR, Hudson) Cc: Jahnke, Deb, K1DAJ ; arrl-odv Subject: [arrl-odv:23952] Re: Logo Usage Mike, staff has done exactly what our General Counsel has advised us to do. Dave Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID "Lisenco, Mike (DIR, Hudson)" <mlisenco@arrl.org> wrote: Harold, You miss the point. The capturing (or re-capturing) of our authority over the Registered Trademark while a critical concern, it is not the concern I’m dealing with. As I see it, the ® is the means to the end. The issue is that we not allow our trademark to be used by an advertiser in making their ad look like the ARRL has endorsed their product. That is the problem. The ARRL has actively protected our name and position as an impartial party in all our advertising for years. If we abrogate that authority, our reputation will be forever tainted. I again refer to the recent issue involving DX Engineering. Yes, maintaining control of our trademark is extremely important. But it’s what we do, or allow to be done to them, that determines their value to our membership and our advertisers. You say that we need to develop a policy as to how our trademarks may be used. I agree completely. However, we don’t have that policy in effect as yet, and it appears to me, given your statement that RHR’s owner Ray will use “....the appropriate language and symbol will be added when he returns” from his trip out of the country, you’ve already given your approval to RHR. Will “be added”??? Have you already consented to allow Ray and RHR to use our trademarks without so much as a peep from the Board? Given the fact that, as you’ve seen in the recent flurry of emails, there is much consternation about this particular issue, no approval for any use of our trademarks should be given until such a policy exists. Why the end run? Am I mistaken? Has approval not yet been given? If you, or Dave, or Deb has given permission to use our trademark in their advertising, I ask that it be withdrawn immediately and until such time a policy is determined and approved by the Board. Additionally, if permission has been given, there needs to be accountability as I believe that many on the Board will want to know who is responsible and why. In any corporate environment, such a ploy would result in repercussions. Have fun in Orlando. 73 de Mike N2YBB From: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 5:36 PM To: Lisenco, Mike (DIR, Hudson) ; arrl-odv Cc: Jahnke, Deb, K1DAJ Subject: [arrl-odv:23949] Re: Logo Usage Mike, Before we take any additional actions, I think that we need to develop a consistent, fair policy for use of our logos in ads before we make the decision to completely remove a logo, particular if an advertiser agrees to comply with our latest request to add the registered symbol and the language that Chris supplied. Adding the symbol and language will assure that we maintain control over our registered trademarks. Otherwise, it would appear discriminatory and/or arbitrary if we applied this action to a particular advertiser or any other organization that we single out or just don't like. I will discuss this with Dave, Chris and Deb Jahnke and we will develop a fair usage policy for our logo usage by advertisers and others, but I want to be on solid legal ground since these types of decisions can have some significant ramifications. With regard to RemoteHamRadio, we are told that Ray, the owner, is out of the country getting ready for CQ WW and that the appropriate language and symbol will be added when he returns. I am off to HamCation in Orlando tomorrow morning, so I may not be able to respond to further emails as quickly while I travel tomorrow and work the show. 73, Harold -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lisenco, Mike (DIR, Hudson) Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 3:21 PM To: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B; arrl-odv Cc: Jahnke, Deb, K1DAJ Subject: Re: [arrl-odv:23943] Re: Logo Usage Harold, Thanks for the reply. I understand that they can’t “take back” what they’ve already done, but they can remove the logos from anything they still have on the web, including the stored newsletter if it’s still available to view online. I would also be loath to grant future access to our logos for this product. The reasons are simple, and in many ways mirror the issues we dealt with over the DX Engineering proposal vis-à-vis the ARRL Lab. Additionally, the use of remote operations for DXCC credit is a very hot button topic. As many members are for it as against it, and the largest concerns from members deal with the commercialization of remote operations. I’m not arguing the merits, just reminding you (us) that to allow the use of our logos in future advertising for this product will create more bad-will than we need. I’d be interested in hearing what others on the Board have to say about this. 73 de Mike N2YBB From: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 12:17 PM To: Lisenco, Mike (DIR, Hudson) ; arrl-odv Cc: Jahnke, Deb, K1DAJ Subject: [arrl-odv:23943] Re: Logo USage Mike, After discussion with Chris, we told them that, like any other party, they had to ask permission to use the DXCC logo or any of our other trademarks. Chris provided us with specific language that any party who uses the logos now needs to use . Here it is: The ARRL diamond logo, "QST" and "DXCC" are registered trademarks of the American Radio Relay League, Incorporated and are used by permission.” Deb Jahnke will also be sending this information to all of our advertisers. RemoteHamRadio cannot take back their newsletter, but they will need to ask permission in the future and we will evaluate their request on a case by case basis. Chris recommended that we also add the ® symbol to the DXCC logo and that other parties who use the logo do the same. Based on that recommendation, we are in the process of adding this symbol to our web pages and other material. For example, you will now notice it here : https://p1kexternal.arrl.org/onlinedxcc/ Regards/73, Harold Harold Kramer, WJ1B ARRL Chief Operating Officer 860 594 0220 From: Lisenco, Mike (DIR, Hudson) Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 10:44 AM To: Kramer, Harold, WJ1B; arrl-odv Subject: Logo USage Harold, What is the status of the logo usage by RHR? Have they been told to stop? 73 de Mike N2YBB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv