Hi all: I have put more Vice Directors on committees and assigned work to Vice Directors more than any other President. I have for years, even before I was President, made a conscious effort to engage Vice Directors on assignments, so I don't want anyone to jump my rear for what I am about to say. 1.) We need A&F to look at costs. Remember, our budget doesn't look that healthy this year. I suspect it will cost more than the numbers mentioned already. 2.) Effectiveness of committees needs to be considered. You folks who are committee chairs, and those who have been in the past, know the problems when you increase the audience. It can be a problem in running an effective meeting, even with mere observers. I still remember the "old rule" that was followed until recent years that if you were not on the committee, you did not talk. Period. I've actually seen more than one Director, who was not on the committee, be asked to leave by the Director who chaired the committee for this reason. They kept interjecting themselves into the committee's work to the point it was counterproductive to the meeting. Let the committee do it's work was the message. We've gotten away from that rule, but I have seen this problem numerous times, even recently. Just something to consider. Observing is fine but some observers just have to interject themselves, and you know what I mean. 3.) Meeting space is a problem. I agree about the space at W1AW. Some don't even want to go over to the PSC meeting for that reason and A&F gets the overflow to the point A&F is packed already at times and you have people going in and out. 4.) I understand the benefits. No need for comments on that. 73Rick - K5UR -----Original Message----- From: Shelley, Barry, N1VXY (CEO) <bshelley@arrl.org> To: Mike Raisbeck <vze18vwgu@verizon.net>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 11:30 am Subject: [arrl-odv:29752] Re: Vice Directors at Thursday committee meetings ?? #yiv3707679204 #yiv3707679204 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} #yiv3707679204 #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204MsoNormal, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204MsoNormal, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 a:link, #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3707679204 a:visited, #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal0, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal0, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal0, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal0, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msochpdefault, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msochpdefault, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msochpdefault {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204msohyperlink {} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204msohyperlinkfollowed {} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204emailstyle18 {} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal1, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal1, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal2, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal2, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal2 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal01, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal01, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal01 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msonormal02, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msonormal02, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msonormal02 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204emailstyle181 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;} #yiv3707679204 p.yiv3707679204msochpdefault1, #yiv3707679204 li.yiv3707679204msochpdefault1, #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} #yiv3707679204 span.yiv3707679204EmailStyle33 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;} #yiv3707679204 .yiv3707679204MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {} #yiv3707679204 div.yiv3707679204WordSection1 {} #yiv3707679204 Mike: I think we can agree to disagree on this one as it’s my opinion that having enough seats and accommodating everyone comfortably for a well-run meeting, are two separate matters. And I’ve always found the meeting room over W1AW to be uncomfortable no matter how many people were in it. I’m not going to opine on the merits of having Vice Directors attend as observers at Committee meetings. I see that as a lose-lose proposition.😊 But whatever the Board (or the President) decides, I would suggest that it is a staff function to make the appropriate arrangements. 73, Barry, N1VXY From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 12:14 PM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29751] Re: Vice Directors at Thursday committee meetings ?? Hi Diane, I would disagree with you on the space. Perhaps partly for the reason you suggest, there must have been 10 VD's attending this January, and there was still space for a few more chairs in both meeting venues. And we aren't talking 15 additional people. Typically there 2 already on the committees. I and several other VD's are almost always there. I think the change in number of people would be perhaps 5 or 6. 73, Mike K1TWF Mike Raisbeck k1twf@arrl.net -----Original Message----- From: Middleton, Diane, W2DLM (CFO) <dmiddleton@arrl.org> To: Mike Raisbeck <vze18vwgu@verizon.net>; arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 11:53 am Subject: [arrl-odv:29748] Re: Vice Directors at Thursday committee meetings ?? Mike, There is at least one more cost factor to consider and that is the committee meetings could no longer be held at HQ. Our two meeting space cannot accommodate an additional 15 people. We therefore would need to obtain additional space at the hotel along with a lunch provided by the hotel. I would be happy to look into the pricing for this if the A&F committee would like to discuss it at their meeting in April. I would also like to point out that there was an unusually large number of Vice Directors in Newington this past January due to orientation and the request for others to attend the harassment training. 73, Diane Middleton, W2DLM Chief Financial Officer ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio ® 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 (860) 594-0225 From: arrl-odv <arrl-odv-bounces@reflector.arrl.org>On Behalf Of Mike Raisbeck via arrl-odv Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 11:43 AM To: arrl-odv <arrl-odv@arrl.org> Subject: [arrl-odv:29746] Vice Directors at Thursday committee meetings ?? Folks, I just got the A&F Committee minutes from January. I haven't digested them yet, but I couldn't help but notice that there were 5 Vice Directors listed as being in attendance. I spent some time Thursday afternoon at the PS meeting, and there were several Vice Directors there as well. You all know that I have a soft spot in my heart for Vice Directors. In the past it has been the practice that Vice Directors didn't get reimbursed for Thursday expenses, which in most cases would entail one more night of hotel expense plus Wednesday dinner (sumptuous Thursday munchies are already supplied.) But clearly the Vice Directors are participating in a very real way at these Thursday committee meetings. Perhaps it is time to acknowledge this and pick up the tab for Wednesday night for Vice Directors. Is this something that can by declaration, or does it need a motion? Rick, I think you could do this by decree. What do folks think. Figure the cost as $150 * 13 (with a VD on A&F and a VD on PS we are typically already paying for 2 of them), or $1950. 73, Mike K1TWF Mike Raisbeck k1twf@arrl.net _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv _______________________________________________ arrl-odv mailing list arrl-odv@reflector.arrl.org https://reflector.arrl.org/mailman/listinfo/arrl-odv